Hydraulic / Electrical issue

[Gooseman]

Good day fellow Montana owners. Recently bought a new to us 2016 3790RD. Been slowly going thru things since the weather here in Southern Ontario has been better. Just bought the rig in January this yr so very new to it. Anyways went to open the slides and the electric cable driven opened no issues but this time the center hydraulic slides are dead. The battery is fully charged and unit is plugged into dedicated 30 amp rv plug. The control box on the front side for the legs is also now dead no power when I try to turn it on. I have checked all breakers and fuses in the main panel. I have checked fuses in the battery compartment and I have 12v at the center lug at the solenoid at hyd pump. It appears that some electrical changes have been made in the battery area as I believe the resettable breakers have been changed(I will try to add pictures of area to show what I mean) open to suggestions on where and what to check or look at. Only have a few hrs of day light after work each night and running out of ideas on why all of a sudden the hydraulics dont work now. The slides worked on the weekend with no issues and went in nice and smooth now nothing at all not even a noise when I toggle the switch. I also noticed the green light I think they call it the wizard light is flashing very rapidly. Thanks for any suggestions Tom

[Gooseman]

See the attached photos

[Carl n Susan]

The frequency of flashing is an indicator of the charging status. From the Progressive converter manual is:

• Light “ON” – Indicates the converter is in the Boost Mode and the output voltage is 14.4 to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.

• Light Blinks Rapidly (every 2-3 seconds) – Indicates the converter is in the Normal Mode and the output voltage is 13.6. In this mode the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery.

• Light Blinks Slowly (every 5-6 seconds) – Indicates the converter is in the Storage Mode and the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2. In this mode the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.

I assume the Level Up system also does not work?

If you disconnect the shore power, do the 12V lights still work?

The 1st picture is scary. The left self resetting CB has all the circuits on one post. There is no CB function consequently. Someone has modified the wiring and the normal diagnostic steps may not work.

It seems that 12V is not available throughout the system. Here is some diagnostic help from a previous discussion.

The 12V flow from the converter to the batteries is pretty straight forward. As others have pointed out, here are the places to look. All connections should have 13.5 +/- Volts if the converter is working.

• The converter is part of the power distribution panel -Ensure the CB for it is On
• There are Reverse Polarity Fuses on the converter which protect against connecting a battery backwards. - Ensure they are not blown.
• Check the output voltage at the converter. - it should be in the 13.5V DC range.
• The power then runs to the Disconnect Switch in the Convenience Center. - Ensure the Red Key is in the position where it can *NOT* be removed. If removed, this interrupts the power charging the battery. The Disconnect Switch is not know to fail, but you can remove it to check there is power in and out of it just to be sure.
• The power next flows to the group of 50 amp self-resetting CBs behind the battery. We all know about the one that hiccups and interrupts the hydraulic system. That one also passes power to/from the converter and batteries. You want to check it and it's brother (it is in the current flow to the battery) to ensure there is 13.5V on *EACH* side of the CB.
• The last connection is the one from the 50 amp CBs to the batteries. Ensure you have clean connections and the cables are not corroded (watch out for internal corrosion under the shrink wrap).

Somewhere along this path there will be the problem. A simple VOM should find it. I hope this helps.

The full blown discussion is *Here* The most common causes are :
o - the Battery Disconnect Switch in the convenience center is in the wrong position (the Red Key should be in the position where it can't be removed)
o - The red plastic covered self resetting 50 amp circuit breakers behind the battery have failed.

[firestation12]

Did you purposely not turn the level control on, or is the display off because there is an issue? If the display does work, it would have been helpful to have take the photo showing a functioning display.

[Gooseman]

The display will not turn on. It did work and now all hydraulics are dead. I figured if it was the solenoid on the hyd pump that I would at least have power to the control display. I am going to order a couple new 50amp breakers to install in the front and try to get the wiring back to the way it should be. If anyone has the same model of trailer could you post a wire diagram or picture of the wiring from the battery and what wires are connected to the breakers please

[Daryles]

Up in the corner behind the hydraulic pump you will find two inline fuses. One red one black.
I don't know what the black one is for but the red one goes to your tank heaters AND the level up controller.

[ChuckS]

My pic shows you there is a single red wire that plugs into the front fwd controller..

Measure at that red wire to ground .. if you have no 12 vdc there then the level up display will be dead

Also looking at your dual polarity solenoid wiring the retract wire (Yelllow) was moved to what looks like a single spliced non OEM wire on that terminal.

Someone has done a lot of wire changing..

It looks from the picture the yellow wire that should be on the retract side terminal is spliced downstream from that single wire the previous owner used.

If you measure at the dual polarity solenoid on the large red cable and to ground it will read 12 vdc even with system not running if power is applied and the resettable breaker is good

[jimcol]

Could the ground to the pump and level controller be missing. Been awhile but seems to me the black ground wire goes to the frame. Trace it out, remove it, clean the ring on the end, scrape the paint where it terminates on the frame, and tighten the the bolt holding it to the frame. IRRC there is a star washer between the eyelet and the frame.

[BB_TX]

As Carl said, someone has completely bypassed the left side breaker. On the right side breaker, check to see if you have 12 volts to the right side of that breaker (the side with the smaller wires).

[Gooseman]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

My pic shows you there is a single red wire that plugs into the front fwd controller..

Measure at that red wire to ground .. if you have no 12 vdc there then the level up display will be dead

Also looking at your dual polarity solenoid wiring the retract wire (Yelllow) was moved to what looks like a single spliced non OEM wire on that terminal.

Someone has done a lot of wire changing..

It looks from the picture the yellow wire that should be on the retract side terminal is spliced downstream from that single wire the previous owner used.

If you measure at the dual polarity solenoid on the large red cable and to ground it will read 12 vdc even with system not running if power is applied and the resettable breaker is good

So I had a chance to look and trace some wires. The yellow and green wires on the solenoid go to the electronic leveling touch pad. The grey and white wires that appear to be spliced go directly to the rocker switch for the slides in the main control panel. I have power to the solenoid 12v and I pulled the plug from the back of the touch pad of the electronic leveling to test the wire for 12v and yes it does and as soon as I plugged it back it came to life but still nothing for the slides. When I toggle the rocker switch I can hear the solenoid click. I did not try the landing gear. I have new circuit breakers ordered to try to bring the wiring back to being properly protected. I need to figure out what all the wires are that are bundled together on the one stud of the circuit breaker that has been bypassed. If anyone has any pictures of their wiring from this front area that I could see what goes where would be greatly appreciated

[Gooseman]

Originally Posted by Carl n Susan

The frequency of flashing is an indicator of the charging status. From the Progressive converter manual is:

• Light “ON” – Indicates the converter is in the Boost Mode and the output voltage is 14.4 to rapidly recharge the battery up to 90% of full charge.

• Light Blinks Rapidly (every 2-3 seconds) – Indicates the converter is in the Normal Mode and the output voltage is 13.6. In this mode the converter is safely completing the charge of the battery.

• Light Blinks Slowly (every 5-6 seconds) – Indicates the converter is in the Storage Mode and the output voltage has been lowered to 13.2. In this mode the RV battery is fully charged and the converter is maintaining the charge.

I assume the Level Up system also does not work?

If you disconnect the shore power, do the 12V lights still work?

The 1st picture is scary. The left self resetting CB has all the circuits on one post. There is no CB function consequently. Someone has modified the wiring and the normal diagnostic steps may not work.

It seems that 12V is not available throughout the system. Here is some diagnostic help from a previous discussion.

The 12V flow from the converter to the batteries is pretty straight forward. As others have pointed out, here are the places to look. All connections should have 13.5 +/- Volts if the converter is working.

• The converter is part of the power distribution panel -Ensure the CB for it is On
• There are Reverse Polarity Fuses on the converter which protect against connecting a battery backwards. - Ensure they are not blown.
• Check the output voltage at the converter. - it should be in the 13.5V DC range.
• The power then runs to the Disconnect Switch in the Convenience Center. - Ensure the Red Key is in the position where it can *NOT* be removed. If removed, this interrupts the power charging the battery. The Disconnect Switch is not know to fail, but you can remove it to check there is power in and out of it just to be sure.
• The power next flows to the group of 50 amp self-resetting CBs behind the battery. We all know about the one that hiccups and interrupts the hydraulic system. That one also passes power to/from the converter and batteries. You want to check it and it's brother (it is in the current flow to the battery) to ensure there is 13.5V on *EACH* side of the CB.
• The last connection is the one from the 50 amp CBs to the batteries. Ensure you have clean connections and the cables are not corroded (watch out for internal corrosion under the shrink wrap).

Somewhere along this path there will be the problem. A simple VOM should find it. I hope this helps.

The full blown discussion is *Here* The most common causes are :
o - the Battery Disconnect Switch in the convenience center is in the wrong position (the Red Key should be in the position where it can't be removed)
o - The red plastic covered self resetting 50 amp circuit breakers behind the battery have failed.

Carl; Yes the CB the way it is wired is not good. I have new coming tomorrow so will make it right. Yes the battery disconnect is in the position that the key can not be removed. If I remove shore power I still have lights and the other slides will work. I have 13.5 v going to the battery so convertor is working. All fuses including the reverse protection are all good. Pulled and verified each one. I pulled the wire from back of auto level touch pad to check for power and yes 12v and when I reconnected it did power up which it was not doing. I have 12v on the center lug of relay for pump. The wires that are on the side lugs go to the touch pad and also to the rocker switch in main panel for the hyd slides. I can hear the click of the solenoid when I toggle the rocker switch.

[BB_TX]

You are making some progress. The solenoid clicking does indicate it is working mechanically, maybe not electrically. Since you have 12 volts on the center terminal, have someone actuate the extend switch and see if you get 12 volts on one of the side terminals. And the retract switch to see if you get 12 volts on the other terminal. If you are getting voltage to both then you will need to move to the pump motor. Motor may be bad. Or it may have a bad/loose ground.

Those solenoid terminals appear to have corrosion on them in the picture. You might lift each wire and clean the studs and wire lugs.

On the left breaker I think all you will need to do is move the short jumper wire to the empty stud leaving the other wires where they are. That breaker may be bad and why someone bypassed it rather than replace it.

[Daryles]

Hope this helps.
1. Shows the hydraulic system on its own 80A circuit breaker per LCI TSB.
2. Shows close up of the wires on the CB
3. Solenoid wiring.


Red self resetting circuit breaker 12v, 30A. (Right one).
Regarding the 10 gauge wiring on this circuit breaker.
Blue: trailer brakes
Tan: tank heaters
Purple: slide control switch
Red 1: Power from 7 way cable/truck
Red 2: Power to Level-Up control panel
Red with inline 30A fuse: to solar MPPT

Red 1: Power from trailer cord & plug/tow vehicle power (battery charging while on road).

Red 2: Power to Lippert level up controller on side of RV.

Purple is the slides, or rather to the control for the hydraulic slides (living room). Bedroom, being electric is separate.

[Gooseman]

Thank you Daryles, BB_TX, Carl, Chuck, jimcol. I am getting closer I can sense it. It turned really cold tonight after work so only traced a few wires and tested a few things but hopefully I can get the wife out to toggle the switch tomorrow and I can check for power to the pump and also check to see if the jacks work. Its got to be something simple as everything was working then the next day nothing.

[Carl n Susan]

I think BB_TX has the answer in Post #12. Hopefully it is bad contacts/ground and not a failed motor.

[Daryles]

Download the Lippert NOW app from Google play store. Lots of good info, manuals, TSB, troubleshooting etc.
Lippert also has excellent help desk support.
Phone: 574-537-8900
Email: customerservice@Lci1.com

Here's a link to test the solenoid and hydraulic pump.

https://support.lci1.com/documents/t...arity-solenoid

[Gooseman]

Ao I was finally able to have a good look at the pump area today. Took all connects apart and cleaned and lubricated with dielectric grease and it made no difference. Using the document that Daryles posted I believe my solenoid is bad. When I jumped the lugs with power the pump started. I have a new solenoid on order already so hopefully that is the issue. Again thanks everyone for the support and ideas. This forum is so full of great articles and helpful info. Hopefully will get a chance to meet other montana owners this year when we finally get a chance to enjoy our rig. I will post results when I get the solenoid swapped out

[Gooseman]

SUCCESS!!! It was the solenoid. Thanks everyone for your help