Shock absorbers

[carlrx7]

Hello MOC,

A search pulled very few members installing shocks on their rides. Plenty of IS threads that cost 6k+ but not very many for $500 shocks. Is the new Road Armor 360 suspension that good?

I'm interested to hear results from these:
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lea.../LC281281.html

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lea...r/RM-2460.html

Thanks in advance!

-cb

[MARK A]

I think the consensus is, that the shocks have to lay so flat, that there isn't much benefit at the angle they have to work from.


Mark

[RMcNeal]

Carl, I've been doing as much research as possible on upgrading my suspension. I have the Road Armor system as original equipment on our 2019 3791RD. So far, it appears that the Morryde IS is the best option. The next option is to add the Morryde XFactor cross members, at least one in the center, but possibly 3 in center and at each spring mount. Most of the shock absorber options, including the Road Master and the Lippert one, do not sit vertically enough to provide much help. In some cases, I have heard they actually restrict the vertical movement of the wheels, which then transfers all of the shock to the frame and coach. The IS system allows for the most vertical wheel travel of any of the systems I've look at so far. That seems to be the key for dampening the road shock.
The XFactor Cross Member system does not dampen road shock, but is supposed to help support the frame hangers for the springs and equalizer, especially in tight turns. I'm still trying to decide if I'll add them since Lippert says doing so would void my frame warranty. But they also said the same thing about the Morryde IS, however with the latter, I think Morryde gives a 5 year warranty of their own but I doubt it covers anything to do with the frame or frame flex issue. Everyone I've discussed this with, from engineers to owners agree the shock system is, at best, no improvement, and at worst, actually worsens the ride quality as the vertical movement is restricted.

[bshgto]

On my last unit I put 2 sets of the Lippert shocks. Did notice some improvement in stopping the pogoing but not completely. Not sure what the know it alls are talking about shocks being to horizonal to do any good mine clocked in at 14 degrees off vertical with the 12" inch frame which is pretty much what most shocks on any vehicle are set at, just look under your truck at the rear shocks for an example. You can clip the top of the bracket if you want to get them closer to vertical if you want but your at the point of diminishing return at that point at 14 degrees.
I called the axle people and talked to the engineer and he said the travel for the 7000 lbs axles are 3" inch up and 3" inch down and at what I set the shocks to you had more than that so it would not bottom out either way. I think the people that you talk to were giving you to generic of an answer and not specific to our units or the shocks you get with the 2 different systems.
YMMV but on the current unit instead of shocks I put the MorRyde SRE 4000
suspension did the same thing as the shocks, much easier to put on and my stuff doesn`t move around inside the camper like before with minimal pogoing over bridge bumps.

[Former StClairSailor]

Interesting to hear Lippert is saying the MorRyde IS system will void the frame warranty. I discussed the MorRyde with a Lippert rep at the 2018 Rally. He stated the IS system wouldn't affect the frame warranty.
I am wondering if this has anything to do with them introducing the Lippert Center Point system?
I am going to follow up with Lippert regarding this.

[Former StClairSailor]

I spoke with a Lippert senior technician. He states the MorRyde IS system is an after market upgrade and if installed by MorRyde will not affect the frame warranty.

[dieselguy]

Well this "know it all" has a bit of counterpoint to add into this melee. I will agree that the Roadmaster shocks with the way they can be mounted will do a bit of good. The Lippert shocks in the other ETrailer example won't do squat. Simply look at the angle of the shock and visualize just how much compression that shock is going to have on say a 2" to maybe 3" deflection?? 6" overall travel of your springs "stated from an engineering source" is a bit of a stretch say just tooling down the road. I figure more like 2-3" total spring travel unless you hit a deep pot hole. Watch the suspensions of vehicles you follow down the interstate to get my drift. With a shock laying over that far, what would you figure the shock compression to be if the spring reacted say 2.5" ... not much. Now at low speed rocking into a campsite, you might get closer to the 6" travel ... maybe. But then it is irrelevant because you're doing say 3-5 mph. My 2000 or 2005 Montana (can't remember which) had shocks straight from the factory, but they didn't do squat because they were mounted at an insane angle. I'd guess besides cost, the reason new models don't come shock equipped is the return in ride improvement is minimal.

Apparently bshgto has had rewarding results with his shocks, but I've put the laid over shocks on a couple of units and both owners reported barely noticable difference and felt their money would have best been spent on something else. Like bshgto ... I'd go with a different equalizer like EZ Flex. Equaflex, or the shown SRE 4000 instead.

[bshgto]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

Well this "know it all" has a bit of counterpoint to add into this melee. I will agree that the Roadmaster shocks with the way they can be mounted will do a bit of good. The Lippert shocks in the other ETrailer example won't do squat. Simply look at the angle of the shock and visualize just how much compression that shock is going to have on say a 2" to maybe 3" deflection?? 6" overall travel of your springs "stated from an engineering source" is a bit of a stretch say just tooling down the road. I figure more like 2-3" total spring travel unless you hit a deep pot hole. Watch the suspensions of vehicles you follow down the interstate to get my drift. With a shock laying over that far, what would you figure the shock compression to be if the spring reacted say 2.5" ... not much. Now at low speed rocking into a campsite, you might get closer to the 6" travel ... maybe. But then it is irrelevant because you're doing say 3-5 mph. My 2000 or 2005 Montana (can't remember which) had shocks straight from the factory, but they didn't do squat because they were mounted at an insane angle. I'd guess besides cost, the reason new models don't come shock equipped is the return in ride improvement is minimal.

Apparently bshgto has had rewarding results with his shocks, but I've put the laid over shocks on a couple of units and both owners reported barely noticable difference and felt their money would have best been spent on something else. Like bshgto ... I'd go with a different equalizer like EZ Flex. Equaflex, or the shown SRE 4000 instead.

Did you read my post at all. Your just guessing with your numbers and offering just opinions, 14 degrees is not laying over maybe you just installed them wrong, there several different ways to put them on depending on frame size and if you clip the ear off to lessen the angle, they did do some good. Insane angle? Maybe I should have stated 14 degrees form true 90 Degrees is 76 degrees of angle. Maybe the pic will clear things up for you. It`s running about 93% efficiency which is pretty good like I said look at your truck shock it`s about the same.
If your friends were not satisfied with the performance they could have changed out the shocks for a firmer set. I would not have let that go.

[Roadtravelers]

It would be nice if Keystone, Lippert, and Anderson etc. would come up with a true and correct list or polices if the "IS" or different hitches and Frame mod's does or does not effect the warranty on the Montana and High country's a chart would be nice either YES or NO would help out a lot.

[Slow Hand]

The thing is how much longer are you going to keep your RV? Are you even thinking about trading up? Then you will have to decide weather to spend the $6 grand for the upgrade. I have a 03 and she is in great shape for her age. I would sure like a better suspension and disk brakes but then I am considering something different when all this crap is over. Depending on the questions I asked shocks would be cheaper. That's what I did with mine.

[Former StClairSailor]

Per Montana and Lippert management, Anderson has been unwilling to submit testing data to support their performance specifications.

It is not up to Montana nor Lippert to invest thousands of dollars to test Anderson product. Due to liability issues, without the required data to support, the manufacturers have no recourse.

[Former StClairSailor]

Originally Posted by Roadtravelers

It would be nice if Keystone, Lippert, and Anderson etc. would come up with a true and correct list or polices if the "IS" or different hitches and Frame mod's does or does not effect the warranty on the Montana and High country's a chart would be nice either YES or NO would help out a lot.

Good Idea! Regarding the MorRyde IS system, I posted this yesterday under the thread Montana Suspension Upgrade with X-Factor:

Rather than pointing fingers, I thought I would look for a solution to the question at hand.

I spoke with the Montana Product Manager, Sam Lengerich, a short time ago and discussed this issue. Sam has already communicated with both Lippert and MorRyde management regarding installing the MorRyde IS system on the Lippert frame on our Montanas.

Lippert's reply: "Only would void the warranty on the area that was modified. Which I would think MR would cover that with their modification. So they should be good".

MorRyde's reply: "The MORryde IS system replaces the existing leaf springs, axles, and attaching parts with our independent design suspension. In addition to outstanding towing benefits, the IS has substantial cross members that go side to side that reinforce and strengthen the frame section where it is installed. Because of the superior towing benefits and strength, the IS is currently being installed at the OEM factory by 4 different OEM's, 3 of which who use Lippert frames. Lippert installs the spring clips on the frame so the IS can be attached. In addition to the OEM business, MORryde has installed thousands of IS sytems, with the vast majority being on LCI frames".

"From a warranty standpoint, because the IS system replaces the running gear on a travel trailer or 5th wheel frame, the warranty for those components now comes from MORryde and not LCI. The MORryde IS warranty is a 5 year warranty because of the strength and durability of the system. The installation of the IS should not impact the other parts of the frame or their warranty".

So, there it is. A consensus from Lippert, MorRyde and Montana.
If MorRyde installs the IS system on a Montana the frame warranty is intact, except the area of the frame that was modified by MorRyde. MorRyde includes the portion of the frame they modified in their 5 year warranty.

Those of you still in warranty and considering changing to the MorRyde IS system should not have any concerns about voiding warranties.

Look forward to seeing all my friends and meeting new ones at this year's Fall Rally. Best Regards.

[dieselguy]

bshgto ... I read your reply beginning to end and simply offered another experience to people on the MOC. Neither your nor my replies should be taken as the final say by followers of this thread. I'm pulling numbers no more out of my rear pocket than you are. Your 6" of max travel stated by an engineer and my 2-3" of standard travel on an interstate are real numbers. I'm not arguing your particular experience with shocks, I'm just putting mine out for an opposing example. I was mainly referring to the two examples with photos from the OP. I said the Roadmaster would somewhat help, the Lippert won't do much. If people are to go by those photos, The Lippert shocks are shown in an unloaded position and are at a fair angle. Once the tire and wheel is on the ground, the shocks will a bit more compressed and at a greater angle. I've been spinning wrenches most of my life and seldom make mistakes installing something as simple as shock kits. The guys units I put shocks on simply reported disappointingly little difference. The laid over OEM shocks of a few years back didn't do squat and most will attest to that along with manufacturers no longer installing them. Roadmaster and Joyrider shocks have improved the results of the install, but a leaf spring suspension RV will never float over the highways. Fivers are inherently top heavy. The way some people pull amplifies that fact. The guy across the street from me pulls his fiver just as he drives his compact car. It's a wonder anything is in place once he gets to a campsite.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

bshgto ... I read your reply beginning to end and simply offered another experience to people on the MOC. Neither your nor my replies should be taken as the final say by followers of this thread. I'm pulling numbers no more out of my rear pocket than you are. Your 6" of max travel stated by an engineer and my 2-3" of standard travel on an interstate are real numbers. I'm not arguing your particular experience with shocks, I'm just putting mine out for an opposing example. I was mainly referring to the two examples with photos from the OP. I said the Roadmaster would somewhat help, the Lippert won't do much. If people are to go by those photos, The Lippert shocks are shown in an unloaded position and are at a fair angle. Once the tire and wheel is on the ground, the shocks will a bit more compressed and at a greater angle. I've been spinning wrenches most of my life and seldom make mistakes installing something as simple as shock kits. The guys units I put shocks on simply reported disappointingly little difference. The laid over OEM shocks of a few years back didn't do squat and most will attest to that along with manufacturers no longer installing them. Roadmaster and Joyrider shocks have improved the results of the install, but a leaf spring suspension RV will never float over the highways. Fivers are inherently top heavy. The way some people pull amplifies that fact. The guy across the street from me pulls his fiver just as he drives his compact car. It's a wonder anything is in place once he gets to a campsite.

Thanks dieselguy,

I had the same opinion as you when I read both posts. The photos on etrailer show the Lippert shocks at an angle that I agree would offer little performance improvement. Just like you stated.
And, good point about how people drive; slowing down on rough roads and when cornering seems to be forgotten by some but is a key part of "ride quality".

Brad

[richfaa]

We installed the Mor Ryde IS on our 06 3400 after the OEM suspension failed. We installed the Mor Ryde IS on our 13402 Montana soon after we purchased it. It is expensive but IMO well worth the cost. We are high end users or at least have been we are slowing down now.


We have pulled over 100K miles combined all over the country without a single IS problem. There have been improvements in the OE suspension in the last few years.If we were weekend users or low end users I don't think we would purchase it.

[Bad Moon]

My $0.02 worth. On my previous SOB trailer, I removed the shocks when I flipped the axles and installed a Dexter EZ flex equalizer. I noticed no discernable difference. On the other hand I don't usually ride in the trailer.

[kingdaddy]

I've got a set of the Roadmaster Shocks part # RM-2460 that have been sitting in the box waiting for me to get around to installing them.

Checked out the OP's link to both these and the Lippert shocks...seems like the Roadmaster shocks would be better (they should be at 3x the price) and I like the mounting much better too.

Just replaced the rubber shear springs in my factory LRE 4000 equalizers and all new heavy duty shackle and wet bolt kits.
Since I had a badly torn shear spring and they were both pretty worn, it really improved the ride.

Definitely looking forward to seeing how much the shocks will help with the ride in controlling the spring action with the damping effect of the gas shocks.
No, it's not the high dollar IS system, but I'm thinking with the new shear springs and shocks, it's gonna be just fine.

[Dan5757]

Just installed a road master shock kit to my 2021 RM379. Made a 1400 mile trip and the difference is very noticeable. Much less bouncing especially on bridges and bad road. The stuff inside stayed where we put it so I’m happy. The angle of the shocks is about 30 degrees so they have the stroke to operate.
Installed myself, took most of the day and had to buy longer u bolts. All said, very happy with the upgrade.

[Foldbak]

I've been on the fence regarding this issue for months. I've received all the same information provided above. In the end I decided to go with Sumo springs. I'm surprised no one has mentioned them here. I haven't ordered yet as I was waiting until spring but it's a good option with good results.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MBJWMNN...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[Dan5757]

I considered Sumo springs as well. Probably a lot easier to install.
Let me know how you make out after a road test. Be interesting to compare results.