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01-20-2020, 09:54 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 187
M.O.C. #10319
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Frame Flex Survey
Before I start, this is not a witch hunt, or an opportunity to complain about quality control at Keystone. I have owned two keystone products now and they have had issues which Keystone has always come through and fixed. One they fixed for us was well outside of the warranty period, but they fixed it anyway. All RVs have their problems, the roads can be very bumpy!
So i noticed at a recent RV show that the 2020 Montana 3790/91 RD has a different design around the front left near the bedroom slide than our older 3790RD does. My suspicion is this is to try and stop the rigs from developing the Frame Flex problem.
I wanted to gather some data from more owners, so put together a short (ish) survey. You can access it here https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/Xeaalepd
I hope it shows that owners with the newer rigs are not having this problem (but I realize that people with 2020 models won't have had them for that long and perhaps the problem has not materialized yet).
My 2017 does not have the pull out tray rear storage and also does not have the full window on the rear wall in the den which I really like, so one day I might move to a newer model than out 2017.
Anyway - if you have 2 mins and like filling out surveys do me a favor and fill it out? Its focus really is Montana/High Country/Big Sky from about 2015 to 2020.
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01-20-2020, 04:11 PM
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#2
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 281
M.O.C. #23051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExPatNW
Before I start, this is not a witch hunt, or an opportunity to complain about quality control at Keystone. I have owned two keystone products now and they have had issues which Keystone has always come through and fixed. One they fixed for us was well outside of the warranty period, but they fixed it anyway. All RVs have their problems, the roads can be very bumpy!
So i noticed at a recent RV show that the 2020 Montana 3790/91 RD has a different design around the front left near the bedroom slide than our older 3790RD does. My suspicion is this is to try and stop the rigs from developing the Frame Flex problem.
I wanted to gather some data from more owners, so put together a short (ish) survey. You can access it here https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/Xeaalepd
I hope it shows that owners with the newer rigs are not having this problem (but I realize that people with 2020 models won't have had them for that long and perhaps the problem has not materialized yet).
My 2017 does not have the pull out tray rear storage and also does not have the full window on the rear wall in the den which I really like, so one day I might move to a newer model than out 2017.
Anyway - if you have 2 mins and like filling out surveys do me a favor and fill it out? Its focus really is Montana/High Country/Big Sky from about 2015 to 2020.
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Are there specific Montana and MHC models that have experienced this issue?
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 331RL
2017 Ford F250 Super Duty, 6.7 PSD
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01-20-2020, 04:18 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vet4jdc
Are there specific Montana and MHC models that have experienced this issue?
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I know for certainty that the 3790/1 and the 3700/1 are affected.
I cannot say about the others.
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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01-20-2020, 06:22 PM
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#4
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 281
M.O.C. #23051
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I hope this survey gets participation to yield results for all of us.
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 331RL
2017 Ford F250 Super Duty, 6.7 PSD
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01-20-2020, 06:23 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,433
M.O.C. #21044
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ExPatNW - very good survey.
However - the last question with the pics of the front slide do not apply to my unit. I picked the first photo with the greater dimension, but if I had an option for “C. Neither apply to my unit” I would have picked that option. See my pic below. I have wondered if my unit might be immune from frame flex due to the location of the bedroom slide NOT being anywhere in the nose.
__________________
MikenDebbie Aggie ‘77 in the sticks near Austin TX
2019 Chevy 3500 High Country DRW
2018 Montana 3921FB
Aussie Gus + Texas Heeler Jimmy
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01-20-2020, 06:30 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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I like the fact that it lets you vote like they do in Chicago. Early and often.
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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01-20-2020, 07:24 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South East NC
Posts: 1,768
M.O.C. #19865
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I did not see the 3761 FL on the list. With 2 front slides maybe mine has 2 times the chances to fail or maybe by 2019 they found someone that could weld. Possibly after all the problems they may even inspect the welds now, naw that would make sense and take 3-4 minutes.
__________________
John & Patty
2022 3855 BR
2019 Lariat F350 4X4 Dually
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01-20-2020, 10:13 PM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 187
M.O.C. #10319
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Hi Mikendebbie - great point - I tried to update the survey but as that question has data against it now it would not let me change the options - which is a shame. Sorry about that.
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01-20-2020, 10:18 PM
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#9
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 187
M.O.C. #10319
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Hi CaptnJohn - I "borrowed" the list of models from another website - perhaps that have it wrong. They only listed the 3760/3761 in the 2020 model year.
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01-21-2020, 05:05 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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John so you are not lulled into not checking. I have frame flex and I have a 2019. So I would keep an eye out if I were you.
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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01-21-2020, 05:49 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,433
M.O.C. #21044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExPatNW
Hi Mikendebbie - great point - I tried to update the survey but as that question has data against it now it would not let me change the options - which is a shame. Sorry about that.
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ExPatNW - you should be able to adjust results to some degree since you are capturing model and year. You can subtract some number of votes on the nose dimension pic question for those of us that have a model that (perhaps) does not apply. I am not saying that my model is immune to frame flex - I just don’t know for sure.
__________________
MikenDebbie Aggie ‘77 in the sticks near Austin TX
2019 Chevy 3500 High Country DRW
2018 Montana 3921FB
Aussie Gus + Texas Heeler Jimmy
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01-21-2020, 06:52 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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We have had two Montana's the 06 3400 and now the 2013 3402. We did not have frame flex on either of them although we had what LOOKED like frame flex the actual problem was the sidewall pulling loose from the aluminum framing. Keystone repaired both but the frame was not broken in the over hang. I wonder how many frame flex problems are not frame flex at all.
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01-21-2020, 08:34 AM
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#13
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 187
M.O.C. #10319
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@MikenDebbie - agree - I think this approach would work.
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01-21-2020, 10:57 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,716
M.O.C. #24086
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As Monty Parks pointed out previously, there are two issues. Frame flex and wall flex. Richfaa mentioned this above.
We had wall flex.
Model. 2019. 3130re
The aluminum weld broke on the vertical stud next to the bedroom slide. We had it fixed last week (missed Quartzsite) at Affinity in Elkhart In. THEY DID AN AWESOME JOB!!! And fast!!! Along with a few other minor warranty repairs including replacing the 50A breaker with the 80A one to fix the hydraulic pump issues. Works great now!!
BTW, at the rally in September we had a lippert tech look at ours and he said we were fine. At that time there was just the bulge in the outside wall. No damage was visible inside the bedroom closet.
Since then DW noticed the split in the wall at the bottom of the closet. We notified Keystone. Standard answer, take it to a dealer CW??? No way!!!! We took it to Affinity.
THEY ARE GREAT!!!!
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01-21-2020, 10:57 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
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Easier for me to provide simple answer to your survey, Never a frame issue on any of our four units
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
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01-21-2020, 03:59 PM
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#16
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Denton
Posts: 289
M.O.C. #12532
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We attended the national rally in 2017 and had some items that the factory was repairing when they brought the flex to my attention. Even though I had been aware of the issue through this forum and had "tried to keep an eye out" for it I had not detected anything unusual. The two service engineers in the repair center saw it and subsequently fixed the problem. The movement they described to me was movement at the seem of a 1/4" or less which will indicate the problem.
There were several others in there for the same issue. Once was a 2009 and another was a brand new one. While it is clearly a bad thing, I have to give Montana credit for taking care of the problem on my unit and others even older all at no charge.
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01-21-2020, 07:09 PM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Friendship, Maine
Posts: 483
M.O.C. #6338
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Had an 07 3075 which had frame flex
Current 2013 3400 Big sky has frame flex which has been worked on 4 times, twice at the factory. Asked them to look at it at last falls rally but would not, so no more Montana’s for me.
__________________
2012 Big Sky 3400, now an SOB 5th wheel
2007 Montana 3075 previously
2015 GMC 3500 Dually
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01-22-2020, 09:03 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
Had an 07 3075 which had frame flex
Current 2013 3400 Big sky has frame flex which has been worked on 4 times, twice at the factory. Asked them to look at it at last falls rally but would not, so no more Montana’s for me.
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Is it the actual broken frame if so that is a serious safety issue
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01-22-2020, 08:02 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auburn
Posts: 879
M.O.C. #18474
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Most of you know my rig was repaired as one of the first 3790s to be done. I noticed right before last year's rally that the seam had split again and approached Keystone at the rally. Long story short, our rig leaves 2/3 for a trip back to the factory to be repaired again. They have made a few changes in the way they are repaired since ours, and they asked us to send it back. Also, it is going back to have the delam repaired underneath the rear left den slide. A place that is just about impossible for water to get to the raw end of the wall as it is in about 1/3 of the length the slide. Will keep you guys up to date.
Monty
__________________
2020 Montana 3790RD Legacy EditionOnan, TST TPMS, TrailAir pin, Discs,
2013 F350 DRW 4x4 CC LBViair 10007, Ride-Rites, Westin HDx, 12k Smittybilt
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01-22-2020, 08:04 PM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auburn
Posts: 879
M.O.C. #18474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richfaa
Is it the actual broken frame if so that is a serious safety issue
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It has been called "frame flex" but most all of them are welds on the aluminum frame or cage that have broken, not the steel Lippert frame.
__________________
2020 Montana 3790RD Legacy EditionOnan, TST TPMS, TrailAir pin, Discs,
2013 F350 DRW 4x4 CC LBViair 10007, Ride-Rites, Westin HDx, 12k Smittybilt
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