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Old 12-28-2020, 12:10 PM   #1
Gubs
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HELP

This should set off a flurry of discussion, but really just looking for some no nonsense advise, if that is even possible anymore!

Can not decide between the F-250 Super Duty diesel and the Ram 2500 diesel. I know both will pull my Montana no problem there, however I'm a bit concerned about the payload. I know everyone is going to recommend the 350 or 3500 but I really don't think I need it. We just purchased a 2020 Montana 3121RL. It is only 35' long and has a pin weight of 2,280, a GVWR of 16,350, but we NEVER pull with hardly any water and there is just two of us. We don't carry a bunch of stuff and when we weighted the trailer with everything we carry it came in at about 14,250 or so. I know this will create some discussion, I'm presently pulling it with a 2012 F-250 6.2L 2x4 with a 16K hitch. I has an upgraded payload package which says it's rated at 3,435, plus I have air bags so pay load is really not the problem. Pulling up a 6% or high grade is the problem, therefore a new and larger truck is in order. I like the Ford and have NEVER had a problem with it before and we pulled a Keystone Greystone 29MK all over Colorado, Utah, California and the midwest. However it only wieght in at about 12,500 fully loaded with water and everything else. My little 6.2L is struggling a bit going up some steep grades. I really do not want a 3500 so please don't just suggest that and move on, okay. It is really between the Ford and Ram!!
 
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Old 12-28-2020, 12:23 PM   #2
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I'll be the first to chime in! Neither Ford or Ram. Get a Chevy!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I'm not making any recommendations (unless its a Chevy), but here is a statement that is well worth some thought and contemplation:

“You really need to think in terms of what is the ultimate extreme usage you'll be experiencing with your truck, not what is the lightest usage and hope it's OK when the extreme happens."

Being a seasoned truck owner and seasoned at towing, this statement should make a lot of sense. Choose carefully.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:07 PM   #3
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I had a Chevy 8.1 years ago and pulled a heavy old Alpha Sun around the country with it. It would pass everything but a gas station!! I see you have dually, I suppose you would highly recommend that. I've thought about the one ton dually but my wife just hates the look of them and as we all know....Happy Wife..Happy Life!!
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:12 PM   #4
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Chrysler, Ford and GM all make good trucks. Pick the one you like and go with it. It really is a personal decision. Drive all three before making a decision and include the one tons also. There is generally no significant price difference in a 250 and 350.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:15 PM   #5
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What is your resistance to a 1 ton truck? The 3/4 ton will pull your trailer just as easily as the 1 ton...brand doesn't matter. They will all pull it. Your loaded pin weight will be in the neighborhood of 2800-3000 lbs. The trucks payload will almost always be the limiting factor. You will likely be over your trucks posted payload with just the trailer attached...nothing else. However, the math will tell you what you need to know. Look at the yellow payload sticker of the specific truck you want to buy. If the numbers work...buy it. Most likely you will find that you will spend a lot of money on a truck that is rated lower than your requirement. Good luck.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:17 PM   #6
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Buy your brand of choice, BUT buy a 1 Ton so you on't have to buy again later when you decide you want a larger Montana. I have been there! If you don't like dually get a SRW 1 Ton.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:26 PM   #7
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Any of the Big Three would do the job but if buying new, go a few \dollars more and get the 350/3500. Yes, an F250 can do the job as mine does but it has every tow, camper and heavy duty option that was available - and that door pillar sticker GVWR is still exceeded
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:29 PM   #8
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No matter what you think, the 3/4 ton will be overloaded once you are hooked up and ready to go. Buy the 1 ton SRW and you are good to go for now and into the future. The 1 ton SRW looks the same as the 3/4 ton SRW and the cost differential is minimal.
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Old 12-28-2020, 02:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubs View Post
This should set off a flurry of discussion, but really just looking for some no nonsense advise, if that is even possible anymore!

Can not decide between the F-250 Super Duty diesel and the Ram 2500 diesel. I know both will pull my Montana no problem there, however I'm a bit concerned about the payload. I know everyone is going to recommend the 350 or 3500 but I really don't think I need it. We just purchased a 2020 Montana 3121RL. It is only 35' long and has a pin weight of 2,280, a GVWR of 16,350, but we NEVER pull with hardly any water and there is just two of us. We don't carry a bunch of stuff and when we weighted the trailer with everything we carry it came in at about 14,250 or so. I know this will create some discussion, I'm presently pulling it with a 2012 F-250 6.2L 2x4 with a 16K hitch. I has an upgraded payload package which says it's rated at 3,435, plus I have air bags so pay load is really not the problem. Pulling up a 6% or high grade is the problem, therefore a new and larger truck is in order. I like the Ford and have NEVER had a problem with it before and we pulled a Keystone Greystone 29MK all over Colorado, Utah, California and the midwest. However it only wieght in at about 12,500 fully loaded with water and everything else. My little 6.2L is struggling a bit going up some steep grades. I really do not want a 3500 so please don't just suggest that and move on, okay. It is really between the Ford and Ram!!
You say you don't want a 3500; I didn't either. But you also say "I'm a bit concerned about payload". And you are correct that you should be.

So, here is the first decision for you to consider... do you want to upgrade to a diesel engine? For me that was a no brainer, yes. But the 2500 class payloads with a diesel drop to around 2000-2500lbs. So, we upgraded from a RAM 2500 cummins to a RAM 3500, both single wheel. My payload went from ~2000lbs to ~3700lbs.

Comparing the 2500 to the 3500 (both CC, SB, cummins, SRW):
-the 3500 rides a bit worse empty but is still good. We got the factory air suspension so they lighten the spring pack and it is noticeably better than without. We had a 2014 3500 and it was terrible compared to the new 3500.
-size, looks, driveability, etc are identical. You would have to look at the badge to know which truck you are in. I suspect the same between F250 and F350.

As to RAM vs Ford, here are some things we considered (for us it was F350 vs 3500, both diesel models)
-Ford has the 10 speed transmission and V8 so it is much more zippy to drive around town. The transmission is new, so it was both a + and - for us.
-RAM/Aisin/cummins feels old school compared, but is a proven combination
-both can tow a mountain over top of another mountain, so no worries there.
-my wife loves the interior of the RAM and the Ford just did not come close for her (likely the biggest deciding factor)
-lots of other advantages/disadvantages and I can see how one would easily give priority to different things that we did.

A buddy and I got our trucks within a couple of weeks of each other - he an F350 Platinum and us a RAM 3500 limited. We are both very pleased with our choices and I expect both will be great trucks.

Hopefully you can take both for a spin. And, as others noted, take pictures of the yellow door stickers on all of them so you know the exact payload of the ones you like.
I really think if you go gas you could stay with the 2500 class, but if you go diesel you will be looking at the 3500 class.

hth
Brad
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Old 12-28-2020, 02:21 PM   #10
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I'll have to join with the others and say that your trailer will require a one ton if you use a diesel engine.

You are in the same spot I am (was) in. Way too much trailer for a 3/4 diesel (the diesel will drop the payload significantly) and too much weight for a gas engine to pull. That automatically leaves you with a 1 ton - and depending on how you load a SRW may not do it.

Your weighted trailer was 14,250. At just 20% that is a 2850 pinload. That will max out a diesel 3/4 ton - and you and DW haven't gotten in the truck yet. The recommendations aren't nonsense - just practical and on point.

I've always told folks you can either let the trailer dictate the truck or the truck dictate the trailer. In your case your trailer is telling you that it requires a 1 ton SRW. And, if you load it up you will be pushing that. In my case I have set parameters for a truck; no diesel and no DRW. Not optimum for getting a large, nice 5th wheel so I hand pick the trailer to go with the truck/drivetrain combo that I want. It's a game of tradeoffs but with that trailer the 3/4 ton truck option got traded off. It will pull it but you be over payload, and if like me, fret about it every single mile you pull it until it makes you sick.

As far as Ford/Ram; I'm a Ram guy now but I've owned 37 new Ford trucks for personal use in my lifetime. I would choose Ram for my own reasons but you will have to determine what is important to you in a vehicle and let those attributes take priority.
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Old 12-28-2020, 02:38 PM   #11
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Don’t take anyone’s advice here. Go drive both several times, look both up on the internet study all the options then decide which YOU like the best. This is the only way to get the best truck for you. What I or anyone else likes doesn’t matter it’s your money.
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Old 12-28-2020, 03:23 PM   #12
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I have to say that I had a 3/4 ton and had to get a one ton to handle what my wife wanted. You know the saying. Happy wife! Any way, I find the handling of the unit and the power is no difference, but it is the amount of weight that you can pull, and or tongue or pin weight. I have a chevy high country, but as many have said buy the one you like, but I believe that bigger I’d better. Just to be clear, I don’t have a dual rear wheel. I did not need that, SRW does just a great job.
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Old 12-28-2020, 04:11 PM   #13
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I think there is a difference in the power of the 2500 and 3500 Ram trucks. The 2500 doesn’t offer the HO engine while the 3500 does as an option. If this isn’t right someone please correct this.
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:20 PM   #14
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I am pulling a 2020 330RL with an F250 SRW, 6.7 diesel. All I can say is, its awesome. Pulls like a dream, at anywhere between 11-13 MPG when we are loaded. Yea, maintenance costs are a bit more, but the ol' saying, "Wanna play, ya gotta pay" fits real well here. I want to get there and play!
I am sure the Ram would do you good also, but my experience is with the Ford. Good luck!
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:52 PM   #15
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I think there is a difference in the power of the 2500 and 3500 Ram trucks. The 2500 doesn’t offer the HO engine while the 3500 does as an option. If this isn’t right someone please correct this.
Lynwood
Yes, the SO (standard) is available in both 2500 and 3500.
The HO is 3500 only.

SO is 370hp, 850 torque with 68RFE 6 speed.
HO is 400hp and 1000 torque with Aisin 6 speed. (2021 HO is now 420/1075)
I've had both and they are both very capable.

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Old 12-28-2020, 09:39 PM   #16
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The tow vehicle is personal choice. Others cannot tell you what you like, whether you are comfortable in or feel best in. My suggestion would be to upgrade from a 2500/250 to a 3500/350 no matter what the brand is. Go to all three/four(GMC included) major brands and drive all of them. See which one you feel comfortable in and then take a couple days to think about them, then go back and drive them again. Sit in them and see which one you feel you could drive 8 or more hours in towing your 3121 or possibly a larger unit in the future and be comfortable doing so and use as a taxi at any stops you might have or even use as a daily driving unit. Once you feel you could live with the vehicle do with it. I would also suggest going with a diesel rather than a gasser. With the new gassers there is more power but not the torque you get with the diesel especially useful when in the mountains and etc. Again it is how you feel about the ride and comfort and we actually can't make the decision for you! That is for you and the DW to choose!
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Old 12-28-2020, 10:39 PM   #17
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has a pin weight of 2,280, a GVWR of 16,350,
Did you weight that? I have the same Montana as you (in 2018 they moved the kitchen to the opposite side and started calling it a 3120) and my pin weight is 3920. I carry quite a bit of stuff and have an on board generator, but I don't think that accounts for 1700.
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Old 12-29-2020, 08:17 AM   #18
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You say you don't want a 350/3500, don't go there, and yet many are still suggesting it anyhow for the payload rating. But the newer 250 trucks have a higher payload rating than some of older 350 SRW trucks some of us are still driving. 2021 F250 trucks have payload ratings well over 3,000 lbs, even over 3,500 lbs, depending on the configuration. Don't know about the Rams.

Buy what you want.


https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-du...s/f250-lariat/
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Old 12-29-2020, 09:12 AM   #19
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You say you don't want a 350/3500, don't go there, and yet many are still suggesting it anyhow for the payload rating. But the newer 250 trucks have a higher payload rating than some of older 350 SRW trucks some of us are still driving. 2021 F250 trucks have payload ratings well over 3,000 lbs, even over 3,500 lbs, depending on the configuration. Don't know about the Rams.

Buy what you want.


https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-du...s/f250-lariat/

The linked brochure is just the normal overstated sales hype they put out. IMO with the numbers the OP has and my personal inspections/consideration of the 3121, the trailer is beyond the scope of any 3/4 ton gas truck I've seen, not to mention a diesel. Now when he finds that 3/4 ton diesel (since a gas engine will be very hard pressed to handle that trailer) with the amenities that a person would want with over 3500 lbs. payload I hope we get a pic of that payload sticker along with truck specs.......
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Old 12-29-2020, 10:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BB_TX View Post
You say you don't want a 350/3500, don't go there, and yet many are still suggesting it anyhow for the payload rating. But the newer 250 trucks have a higher payload rating than some of older 350 SRW trucks some of us are still driving. 2021 F250 trucks have payload ratings well over 3,000 lbs, even over 3,500 lbs, depending on the configuration. Don't know about the Rams.

Buy what you want.


https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-du...s/f250-lariat/
Yet some F250 trucks have as little as 1,684lbs payload according to the tow charts for 2021. (the only ones with 3,500+ are 4x2 reg cab short box with lowest end trim and gas motor).

IMHO, I would not suggest to the OP to just "buy what you want". As others have suggested, some research is in order here - with your Montana loaded as you've described, a typical 4x4 CC SB diesel 3/4 ton could be over payload by 1000lbs or more. So, check the payloads on the models you are looking at, allow for some safety margin, then buy what makes sense to you.

I had a 2500 RAM cummins pulling a 11k GVWR 5th wheel and 2000 pin weight; the truck pulled it up and down the rockies without working hard at all; I regularly passed many a semi rig. Stopping was also great. But with the softer 3/4 ton suspension, the tail would wag the dog at times too. The 3500 is just more solid when towing because it has the rear suspension designed for the extra 1800lbs of rated GVWR and associated payload.

hth

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