Front sidewall frame issue?

[dieselrealtor]

I have a 2006 319bhd, the right front sidewall has has some delam for a while & I started working on it a few days ago. I noticed there was a bulge on the under cover toward the front & thought some steel may have just been bent. I put a jack to it to straighten it out & the aluminum frame being the filon wall panel started moving up independently from the delaminated luan, filon & front cap.

Right side sits approx .5"-.75" lower than the left side.

Question, is the exterior wall glued to the frame or is it independent?
Should the aluminum frame be attached firmly to the frame?

I have done delam repair using epoxy on a Cougar I had years ago & it turned out well.

Pics not great but what I have;

[IMG][/IMG]

[Mikendebbie]

The screen shot below is from the 2006 sales brochure. Maybe this will answer your question. I’m having a hard time figuring out where your photo is taken.

[dieselrealtor]

Thanks for the reply, here is another pic. (tape is to keep rain out)


[IMG][/IMG]

[Mikendebbie]

It might be helpful if you watched some of the “Montana factory tour” videos on YouTube. There are dozens. You can see the bare frame, then how the OSB/ plywood/aluminum framed floor structure is attached to the frame, and how the vacuum bonded wall units are attached to the floor. There might not be videos going back to 2006 - but it will be helpful to see how the bits and pieces come together.

[twindman]

I had the old frame flex on my 2006. Easy way to tell was when you moved from front jacks to the truck, the bedroom closet wall (ran front to back and was just a piece of 1/8 (1/4?) inch paneling) bowed out almost 1 inch. This was because the frame in the front is just a horizontal frame piece which is welded to a vertical piece which is then welded to the main frame under the whole body. Solution was to remove the front (somehow) and weld it back and brace it with an angled piece for extra support.
Maybe this is happening to you and the piece you are having trouble with is being bent.

[Carl n Susan]

Boy it has been a long time since 2006. You might find more info by Searching on "frame flex" and look for really old Threads.

I seem to recall there were problems where the aluminum frame separated from the Lippert frame. The whole shebang was attached with screws. The solution was to remove the front cap and slide 2x2" wood pieces into the aluminum horizontal framing. Then long lag screw were driven through the Lippert frame into the aluminum and wood re-reinforcements. This is probably not a precise remembrance, but it seems more real to me than a bad dream.

[twindman]

Pretty sure my 06 had welded frame up front because they had to re-weld to fix it.

[Carl n Susan]

I looked for old posts but I didn't have much luck. But it seems they are still using the described technique as of 2019. Look at Post #26 in this Thread https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...t=77986&page=2

[dieselrealtor]

I appreciate all the responses, it appears that I may not have to take the front cap all the way off from the post referenced.

It is an old coach, trying to fix it up best I can to use a little more before we get a different one (newer) with different floorplan.

[MandK]

Originally Posted by Carl n Susan

I looked for old posts but I didn't have much luck. But it seems they are still using the described technique as of 2019. Look at Post #26 in this Thread https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...t=77986&page=2

They are still doing it this way as of 2022 also. If there is enough movement that the silicone seal breaks on the overhang side wall and lower side molding when its on the truck, and the gap closes when its off the truck, AND no other problems exist like bulging filon and/or cracks in the filon in the corners of the slideout, it usually means (so I am told) that the screws have pulled out of the aluminum sill plate on the side of the nose where it is screwed to the steel frame. They put the wood inside the aluminum sill tubes like shown in the above post and replace the original screws with longer ones and the longer lag screws don't pull out of the wood like they do on the aluminum with no wood. This is a more common problem than it should be. I just met some folks at a camp ground with a sob that had the same thing happen and the fix was the same as ours, although they had a crack in the lower front corner of the bedroom slide opening that appeared right after the repair was made which makes me think they have wall stud welds broken that need to be repaired with gussets. Maybe the wood, or a better design should be incorporated in the newer ones if it hasn't already. Not sure if this is this op's problem or not.

[Jay & Bobbie]

During our recent cross country trip, I noticed the front closet wall buckles, or bows when the load is on the truck. The wall straightens when the load is on the jacks. After reading this thread, others about frame flex, and watching several videos, I am beginning to be concerned. I have not observed any cracking anywhere on the exterior.
Does anyone know how much frame flex is normal? Is there a tolerance? I'm going to try and measure how much movement there is when the load is transfered.

[Carl n Susan]

There is always some flex when hooked up. The closet wall is one of the first indicators. It could be something simple like the wall was cut a tad too long. Or a harbinger of things to come. Watch the silicon seal around the corner of the "chin" on the drivers side. That is where the bad flex becomes apparent.
Somewhere here is a document on measuring the amount of flex that Keystone thinks is "normal". I will Post it *IF* I find it.

[MandK]

Hopefully Carl can find it, I wouldn’t know where to look for it. But they had us measure from the exposed frame corner at the rear of the pin box to the the frame at the point where it meets the front jacks. We were within tolerance so that indicated that the steel frame was fine and no welds were broke, pointing to the screws pulling out of the aluminum wall tube.

[MandK]

Well, I guess I could find it. A quick google search of “Lippert frame flex measurement” turned this up. There are others.
https://redwoodrvowners.com/wp-conte...dflexguide.pdf
I can’t remember the acceptable difference.

[Carl n Susan]

MandK: That is the document I was thinking of. Good find, even if it was from a SOB site I thought I read what the allowable distance variance was, but it is not in that doc.

[Jay & Bobbie]

Thanks, at least that is a starting point. I will take those measurements in the next few days.

[dieselrealtor]

I dug in a little deeper, printed https://redwoodrvowners.com/wp-conte...dflexguide.pdf
and the door side has roughly 1/2 inch of flex, the non door side has virtually none.

It appears that 2x2 has already been installed in the lower tube/sill of the door side & that the frame is riding lower than the clearance on the cap;



I guess I need to pull the pinbox & chin cover(?) off to check further & a thorough cleaning.

[dieselrealtor]

Just posted but it disappeared.

Dug into it a little deeper, took measurements from the doc at https://redwoodrvowners.com/wp-conte...dflexguide.pdf

I have virtually no flex on non door side (driver & slide) & roughly 1/2 inch of flex on door (no slide) side.

The frame appears to be lower than the clearance on the cap, creating a bulge on the chin cover (?)
[IMG][/IMG]

It appears that the 2x2 has already been installed in the sill/tube on the door side.

It appears to have several places for lag screws that have no screws, example;
[IMG][/IMG]

I guess I need to pull the hitch off & chin cover(?) down for further evaluation & thorough cleaning.

[dieselrealtor]

I have posted twice, they keep disappearing.

[Carl n Susan]

dieselrealtor: The reason the Post didn't appear (aka disappeared) is that any Post with URL links and made by a member with less than 10 Posts are held until approved by a member of the Site Team. This is part of the Spam protection (you would be amazed how many we catch this way).

The Site Team is often out an about in the middle of the day (we don't get notified of a held post) and there is sometimes a delay before the Posts get approved. Both of yours are now there even though they are sort of duplicates.

I see you have an issue with your pictures. Posting pictures on the MOC isn't too difficult once you know the process. Lots of members do just that. Be sure to take the photo in Landscape mode.

Go to https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ad.php?t=70323 and read posts #8 and #25.

By uploading the pictures to the MOC, subsequent viewers can blow them up to a larger, more viewable size. And you will avoid the problem where the picture hosting site decides to no longer allow web forum access (Tinypic, Photo Bucket, etc.) and the pictures are no longer available for us to see.