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Old 12-23-2022, 10:11 AM   #1
joerach89
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Everything frozen

Hi! First time poster. We are in a 2020 3121RL. Preparations for freezing weather included wrapping water filter system, City water faucet and all connections to the rig. Filled on board holding tank in case things froze externally. Fresh, gray, black tank heaters are all on. Well, at least the blue lights are on. Well, no water today. Holding tank is frozen or, potentially, pipes from the holding tank. Pump turns on, but no water. Heater in basement is at 60°, furnace is working, as is the fireplace. Husband put a fan in the basement to blow warm air towards the holding tank. We don't have a hair dryer for the camp connection, but that's the next step. Cabinet doors to the convenience center are open. What else can we do? Did we miss something? Any and all suggestions would be highly appreciated!
 
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Old 12-23-2022, 10:31 AM   #2
DutchmenSport
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I had a similar situation last Winter when we ran out of propane in the middle of the night. Things froze up pretty fast. Actually, I think there was only 1 spot that froze that stopped all water, and that was the out-take pipe in the fresh water tank. It feeds from the bottom of the tank and we were also low on water. No furnace running for a while, really cold weather, low on water and it was a recipe for the bottom of the fresh water tank to ice up, just enough it stopped water flow.

Things warmed up later in the day and we got the propane filled up. Between the furnace blowing again and the above 32 degree weather then, we were back with water by noon.

A frozen pipe can happen anywhere. It's near impossible to tell exactly where. But considering you have no water running anywhere, my first suspect would it's frozen somewhere between the fresh water tank and the water pump.

Can you hook up to city water for a few minutes and see if water runs via the garden hose. If it does, then you'll know the problem is between the water pump and the fresh water tank.
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Old 12-23-2022, 10:33 AM   #3
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Don't run the fireplace or any other extra heater until the furnace can heat the floor warm enough to unfreeze the pipes. Your fresh tank is most likely in the very back part of the rig and the water lines should run near the duct work. Also, make sure the basement wall is open a little so the heat can get to the water pump. I had mine freeze once when everything else was fine.
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Old 12-23-2022, 11:35 AM   #4
joerach89
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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by DQDick View Post
Don't run the fireplace or any other extra heater until the furnace can heat the floor warm enough to unfreeze the pipes. Your fresh tank is most likely in the very back part of the rig and the water lines should run near the duct work. Also, make sure the basement wall is open a little so the heat can get to the water pump. I had mine freeze once when everything else was fine.
We have water from the tank now! I'm surprised those pipes did freeze since we had the furnace running all night which is why we were at a loss as to what happened. I think putting a heat source and fan pointing towards the back at an opening in the basement might be what eventually worked. Maybe our furnace was set too low since we have a radiator running in the bedroom. We'll see what happens tonight! Thanks for the input!
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Old 12-23-2022, 11:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by DutchmenSport View Post
I had a similar situation last Winter when we ran out of propane in the middle of the night. Things froze up pretty fast. Actually, I think there was only 1 spot that froze that stopped all water, and that was the out-take pipe in the fresh water tank. It feeds from the bottom of the tank and we were also low on water. No furnace running for a while, really cold weather, low on water and it was a recipe for the bottom of the fresh water tank to ice up, just enough it stopped water flow.

Things warmed up later in the day and we got the propane filled up. Between the furnace blowing again and the above 32 degree weather then, we were back with water by noon.

A frozen pipe can happen anywhere. It's near impossible to tell exactly where. But considering you have no water running anywhere, my first suspect would it's frozen somewhere between the fresh water tank and the water pump.

Can you hook up to city water for a few minutes and see if water runs via the garden hose. If it does, then you'll know the problem is between the water pump and the fresh water tank.
Thanks for the input! We have water from the tank now, but not from the hookup. It looks like everyone is trying to get city water up in the park. I see a variety of heating devices in use such as torches. I'm just glad we're running now. Thanks again!
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Old 12-23-2022, 11:41 AM   #6
Daryles
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Thawing freshwater tank.
Hopefully it is not full. This is also assuming the freshwater hose from the tank to the water pump is also frozen.
Needless to say you have to get heat to it. Keeping the heat on the tank long enough to thaw it is the problem. If you can skirt do it. If you cant (Campground rules etc.) Get some styrofoam board anyway. Cut and fit it just to surround your freshwater tank. Wedge it between the underbelly and the ground. Make sure there is no air gaps. Use 4" wide duct tap. Put a couple of drop lights or small ceramic heater in this "square". If you have a remote thermometer place it in here to monitor it.
Under your kitchen island, remove the panel covering your sink drain. You will find a large hole in the flooring that goes all the way to the underbelly. Put a hair dryer blowing down this hole. It will put heat into your underbelly and help thaw the freshwater pipe from your tank to the pump.
Go around the outside of your rig underneath. Clean all holes and gaps with alcohol and cover them with Gorilla tape. Block all gaps you can (around middle jack legs) to prevent drafts that suck your heat out.
I have an untried method too...
IF you have City freshwater, and an outside shower, and a heated water hose...
Connect the heated hose from the shower to the freshwater tank drain valve. I put a garden hose valve on my freshwater drain valve. Plug in the hose heater and place the hose pigtail thermostat in ice cold water. This will make the heater in the hose turn on. You want to keep the water in the hose hot. If you have pool noodles insulate the hose with them. Open the shower HOT water valve, slowly!! Check for any water flow to the freshwater tank.
No flow, end of this idea. Tank is frozen solid. Need to thaw it first. Unplug/remove everything. Drain hose.
OR put a hair dryer blowing on the drain pipe area. The freshwater tank fill/supply port is located next the the freshwater drain. If you can get it to thaw this method might work.
IF you have flow increase hot water flow.
Hopefully your freshwater hose to your pump will thaw. Turn on the pump occasionally to test it. Once you get the pump to work turn off city water and only use your freshwater tank water to circulate. Keep this running for a while to completely thaw out and actually heat up your freshwater tank.
What you are doing is taking hot water from your water heater, through your outside shower faucet and putting it into the freshwater tank thawing it. Then your pump pulls that cold melted water and cycles it back through your water heater to repeat the cycle. I have a 12 gal hot water tank. This might work depending on how much frozen water you're dealing with.
The DOWNSIDE is, if your freshwater hose doesn't thaw out, your tank will fill and overflow out your vent. This could be bad if you cannot drain it and the whole thing freezes.
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Old 12-23-2022, 05:49 PM   #7
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When we have been in below freezing temperatures, we only used the furnace because the thermostat would see warmth inside the rig from the fireplace heater or any other source and turn off the furnace too soon. We also kept the thermostat set at 65 degrees at night or even a few degrees higher and never experienced frozen plumbing.
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Old 12-26-2022, 03:27 PM   #8
Derby6
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Yea we just had really cold snap and I learned on the fly.
Temps down to 10 degrees, with VERY heavy wind making it -10 degrees.

I lost water in 3-4 hours with heat on and found it was at the spicket the next morning. Got that thawed out and then insulated better and no issues since. I left Fresh water at about 1/3 full and it also froze--Fact 2-3 days later here and that part is still froze. Only getting in 30-40 degree range during day and teens at night. Fresh water drain did work this afternoon, but I suspect the line going to the water pump is still froze and pressurizing the water pump since it doesn't even try to come on. I'm just continuing to use city water and head south tomorrow--hopefully that line thaws out and I'm back to normal soon.
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Old 12-27-2022, 08:16 AM   #9
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I do a lot of extra work,

On the cited water I put a 30 gal plastic trash can over it with a 100w halogen light bulb, use a heated hose into the convenience center. If the park has a freeze proof faucet I cut a hole in the top of the trash can and put another trash can over the other trash can.

In the basement I cut a hole in the divider behind the convenience center and I have a ceramic adjustable wattage heater and stick it where I cut the hole to assist with keeping consistent heat blowing. I usually keep the basement heater at 750 watts.

For a more efficient usage of propane I have tank heaters so the propane boils off, once temp get 32 and below propane has a hard time boiling off to creat the gas to run your heater efficiently. Since I’ve added the tank heaters I use every bit of the propane in the tanks when it get cold.

I also keep several gallons of water for that just in case.

Sewer tank I add a gallon of RV antifreeze to keep it from freezing, I keep my gray water tank valves open and run the faucets to also assist the park main line if they’re shallow.

As far as the fresh water tank, mine is in the rear so if the line freeze it doesn’t take long for them to un thaw, I keep my heat set so the inside stays at 74. When it gets in the low teens to single digits I could care less about the cost of propane and how much I use. I carry 2 extra 30lb bottles all the time and keep them full for rotation just for this type of weather.

We went through -12 in Fortsmith AR 2 years ago and I swore I would not have that type of weather affect me again. It’s a lot of work in weather like that to keep your 5th from freezing.

I also carry a generator in case power goes out, not power= not heat for very long.
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Old 12-28-2022, 03:11 PM   #10
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We have a 3019 MS3811. It's reported as a 4 season trailer. During cold weather I open up the storage cellar wall that hides all the water plumbing, water pump and access the water storage tanks. Then I place small ceramic heater(s) behind the wall with the heater facing the majority of the water lines. I also place remote temperature sensors in the water value control area and in the enclosed under belly area where the water lines run. I then adjust both the floor propane heater and electric box ceramic heaters based on temperature readings from the remote temperature sensors. As I see these temps getting closer to 32 degrees the higher I turn up the ceramic heaters.
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Old 12-28-2022, 03:12 PM   #11
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What an adventure! You provided food for thought. Thank you!
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Old 12-28-2022, 03:13 PM   #12
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Good point. Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2022, 04:18 PM   #13
joerach89
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Thanks everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joerach89 View Post
Hi! First time poster. We are in a 2020 3121RL. Preparations for freezing weather included wrapping water filter system, City water faucet and all connections to the rig. Filled on board holding tank in case things froze externally. Fresh, gray, black tank heaters are all on. Well, at least the blue lights are on. Well, no water today. Holding tank is frozen or, potentially, pipes from the holding tank. Pump turns on, but no water. Heater in basement is at 60°, furnace is working, as is the fireplace. Husband put a fan in the basement to blow warm air towards the holding tank. We don't have a hair dryer for the camp connection, but that's the next step. Cabinet doors to the convenience center are open. What else can we do? Did we miss something? Any and all suggestions would be highly appreciated!
Once we got everything defrosted, final actions were to keep the fan blowing through the underbelly, added a droplight next to the water pressure regulator (which is close to the ground) and hooked to a heated hose, placed the grill top over that so droplight didn't touch the insulation blanket. We used the furnace more, too. If we're going to be anywhere long-term, we'll add skirting.

Thanks again, everyone!
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Old 12-28-2022, 04:38 PM   #14
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.....Temps down to 10 degrees, with VERY heavy wind making it -10 degrees....
Wind makes it cold for us, but does not affect your water...10 degrees is 10 degrees.
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Old 12-29-2022, 06:22 AM   #15
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Wind makes it cold for us, but does not affect your water...10 degrees is 10 degrees.
Yes, 10 degrees is 10 degrees…. But high winds push that 10 degree air past your compartment seals and through your walls and windows which will make it more likely to freeze than on a calm day.
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Old 01-03-2023, 06:38 AM   #16
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We had a similar situation with our 2017 3950BR Legacy early on while under warranty. Had a Pennsylvania freeze in the teens. Took same precautions, disconnected water and filled tank, all 3 tank heaters on. Furnace running constantly. Water tank froze solid and cracked open, black and grey tanks didn't have much in them, but froze also despite heat tape on exterior lines. During the repairs we came to find that there were no heat pads on black and grey - those switches do nothing. There was a heat pad on the fresh - but it was sized for a 40 gal tank max - not the 55 gal Keystone installed it on. Still Keystone denied warranty coverage - stating any freezing is not covered. We ate thousands in replacing that fresh water tank and hotel stay. If happens again, only put a small amount of water in the fresh tank to leave room for expansion if it freezes, and check your heater pads - you'll find if they even exist, they are undersized for the tank they are installed on.
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