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12-20-2019, 07:23 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Future diesels W/O DEF???
This is an interesting article on some new technology that could potentially eliminate the use of DEF in diesels.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-diesel-finally-come-clean/
Seems to good to be true...
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12-20-2019, 03:33 PM
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#2
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Beloit
Posts: 283
M.O.C. #17535
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This is really interesting and as an engineer with the builder of the largest diesel engines built in American, I am going to pass this along. Another alternative being looked is the multi cycle injectors.
Multi cycle injection is where the system can trigger the injector up 5 times in each combustion cycle, thereby controlling the timing and when fuel is injected. This allows for fuel to be injected to get maximum power and minimize emissions.
But I suspect this “bunsen burner” add-on is years away and knowing the available space inside the cylinder during the combustion cycle, it will be a challenge to fit this in. Plus, this would have to prove considerable improvement in emissions before approved especially if we would like to eliminate the DEF system.
But let’s keep watching!
__________________
Steve & Lisa
2015 Montana High Country 353 RL | Sailuns | Kodiak Disc brakes
2015 F-350 DRW Crew Cab | Reese Goosebox
Retired and Lovin’ it!
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12-20-2019, 03:36 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twopetes
...
Multi cycle injection is where the system can trigger the injector up 5 times in each combustion cycle, thereby controlling the timing and when fuel is injected. This allows for fuel to be injected to get maximum power and minimize emissions.
...
But let’s keep watching!
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Isn't this basically what the modern day high pressure common rails are doing? Injecting multiple times into the combustion cycle? That was my understanding...
It will be interesting to watch for sure!!!
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12-20-2019, 03:50 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,569
M.O.C. #2283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS
Isn't this basically what the modern day high pressure common rails are doing? Injecting multiple times into the combustion cycle? That was my understanding...
It will be interesting to watch for sure!!!
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My old 6.4 can fire up to 7 times per cycle but it is my understanding they don’t fire that many times. I think 5 times but I’m not sure, been to long.
Lynwood
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12-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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#5
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Beloit
Posts: 283
M.O.C. #17535
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Correct but the cycles are being developed to vary the amount of fuel that is injected each time it fires and to control the timing to allow the injections to be triggered at more advantageous times in the combustion cycle. It is possible that the number of injections per combustion cycle will continue to evolve to improve fuel economies and reduce emissions. The other issue with truck engines is that the RPM is continually changing which makes it harder to minimize fuel use and control emission. The large diesel generators built where I work are constant speed which allow more control of the injection cycle.
Another design being worked on is the size of the holes in the injector nozzle and the angle the nozzle sprays. It is actually amazing the things that affect emissions. This bunsen burner idea may be the greatest thing since buttered toast!
__________________
Steve & Lisa
2015 Montana High Country 353 RL | Sailuns | Kodiak Disc brakes
2015 F-350 DRW Crew Cab | Reese Goosebox
Retired and Lovin’ it!
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12-20-2019, 04:25 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twopetes
.... This bunsen burner idea may be the greatest thing since buttered toast!
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LOL...
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12-20-2019, 04:28 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh
My old 6.4 can fire up to 7 times per cycle but it is my understanding they don’t fire that many times. I think 5 times but I’m not sure, been to long.
Lynwood
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On the LB7 Duramxes (gen 1), there is actually a band of RPMs, about 2500-2700 that this feature shuts off on,and the engine gets noticeably louder...
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12-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 152
M.O.C. #13290
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I have a 2012 ram 3500 6.7 turbo diesel and it doesn’t need DEF it has an EGR
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12-25-2019, 07:17 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 735
M.O.C. #25060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafael33155
I have a 2012 ram 3500 6.7 turbo diesel and it doesn’t need DEF it has an EGR
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Unfortunately, for us all, those days are gone, for the moment, if you want a new truck...
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12-25-2019, 09:27 PM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: May 2018
Location: san andreas
Posts: 209
M.O.C. #21805
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and to believe people used to laugh at my 6.0.
no def. or associated problem prone filters.
less computer problems... due to less computer on it.
only time will tell what is up. but there is a fail point to all this less pollution control junk. like as in having to burn more fuel to get the sane result.
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