Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Brrr it's cold outside! Winter Camping
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-01-2021, 02:10 PM   #1
KYRattler
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6
M.O.C. #27645
Bathroom fan draws cold air through furnace.

Hello all, please excuse if this has been answered somewhere on here. I'll blame the Google and forum search algorithms for keeping it hidden.

Anyhow, just like the title states, we have outside-temperature air being drawn into the coach while the bathroom/kitchen exhaust fan(s) are being used.

We are full timers in our 377FL, and as fall/winter presses in on us, I'm trying like a little Dutch boy to put a finger on all the gaps installed at the factory in Elkhart. I've filmed the single pane sliding windows and Reflectix'd all the bedroom windows. I've placed extra weatherstripping around the door frame gaps.

Between the electric fireplace, the main AC electric HEATER, and a radiant oil heater in the bedroom, I can keep it toasty when the frost hits... WITHOUT using the propane furnace. However, should we take a shower or "release any demons" in the bathroom, the awesome vent fan will draw an enormity of cold air through the intake of the furnace (which I'm sure is coming from the pass-through storage bay). I've checked this with an oil infuser in front of all the likely suspects of cold air. The furnace is the culprit.

Am I missing any secrets or RV lifehacks? My chilly-willy wife thanks you in advance!

PS: No, I will not stop using the fan... Moisture and "demons" are not friendly to small space living.
 
KYRattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 03:20 PM   #2
Daryles
Montana Master
 
Daryles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,139
M.O.C. #24086
My list of...

Air gaps...
(mice, bugs entry points)
look all around the frame underneath. Take gorilla tape and cover all the holes in the frame. As mentioned above, there is a gap where the gas line goes into the furnace/hot water heater. There is also a gap aft of this. Where the skirt meets the frame forward of the sewer pipe. There is a plastic filler in the space with a gap all the way around it.
Big gap around the middle jack legs.
Same around the front jack legs but you cant block them. This provides venting for the propane tanks.
Also gap around the water heater on the outside. Probably the same around the furnace on the outside.
Look up in the pin box. There is a big hole where the 7 way wiring goes through. Also if you look up there you will see the bedroom floor. No insulation. I added 2" pink styrofoam and taped over the hole around the wires bundle.
You can cover your stair vents in the summer (need to leave it open for furnace air return in the winter). Cover the floor air registers with magnetic covers. Trap all the cold air inside.

Put reflectix on the exterior walls of your pantry and cabinets. Also on the interior of your basement compartment doors
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
Daryles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 06:23 PM   #3
DutchmenSport
Montana Master
 
DutchmenSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Anderson
Posts: 1,979
M.O.C. #22835
I had a similar problem with my 375FL, which is the same identical layout as yours, except yours has the loft over the master bedroom and without the stairs, we have a slightly larger bathroom.

The real problem is the chloroplast underbelly. It's not sealed. Oh, there may be a few screws holding it up in place, but there are gaps big enough for a rat to get through.

When the ceiling vents are turned on, the air is sucked up through the underbelly because of those gaps and lets cold air in. It comes in through the furnace, or the return vent area under the steps going to the upper level of your camper.

The solution is much easier than you think, but also take a little time to do.

When I discovered all the gaps and holes along the edge of the chloroplast, I sealed those gaps up with old-fashioned Liquid nails. You can probably use other caulkings, but the original Liquid Nails has been time tested and proven to last almost forever in all weather and wet conditions.

It took about 10 or 12 tubes of the stuff, but I went around the entire chloroplast edges under the entire front half of the trailer. The biggest gap was where the drop down frame drops down. There must have a 1/4 inch gap or more where the chloroplast was sagging and drooping down.

I pumped a lot of Liquid Nails in those gaps. I actually did that in the Summer. We noticed immediately the air conditioner cooled better, and when running heat when weather turned cold, we did not feel the cold draft on the kitchen floor any more.

And when turning of the ceiling vents, there's no longer a draft pulling through the furnace, or the return vent. The furnace actually runs less .... a LOT less and the entire trailer feels warmer.

That's my solution.

I realized the gaps were there when I removed the wall of the pass through and had to do something in the underbelly. It was pretty dark under there and the light shone like little stars on a pitch black night. That's when I realized where all the drafts were coming from through the furnace area.

Liquid Nail is truly tough as Nails and the original will endure any weather. I once used it to affix a broken turn signal on the front of my Chevy S-10 because I was too cheap to buy another assembly. The plastic catches all broke out and the entire assembly was just dangling from the wires. I put the assembly back in place and then pumped a couple tubs of liquid nails all round that assembly. It never fell out again. I had that truck for 10 more years. The entire truck was falling apart by then, but that turn signal assembly was still rock solid when the tow truck came and hauled it away to the junk yard. They gave me $100 for the truck and they hauled it away! I literally drove it to death.

So, check it out. I almost guarantee you, there is your problem.
__________________
To plant a garden is to believe in tomorrow.
2019 Montana High Country 375FL
2014 Chevy Silverado Duramax, 6.6L Dually
DutchmenSport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 06:44 PM   #4
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,700
M.O.C. #6433
There is no solution. You cannot exhaust air from the trailer without other outside air coming in from somewhere to replace it. Simply cannot be done. Otherwise you would be pulling a vacuum on the trailer. If the trailer were truly air tight, the exhaust fans would not exhaust any air.

Air can come in thru any small gap anywhere in the construction of the trailer. It can come in thru electrical outlets, light fixtures, around any plumbing entry point, around slide outs, and more.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
BB_TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 07:01 PM   #5
Montana Man
Montana Master
 
Montana Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Carson City
Posts: 1,994
M.O.C. #21963
Exactly ^^^

Just like a poorly designed fireplace in a house. The fire will draw in air from the path of least resistance. It can actually make some rooms cooler by drawing in cold air.
__________________
2016 3160, Legacy, Sailuns, Splendide 2100 xc vented, 1 1/2" axle lift blocks, 2014 Ram 3500 SRW SWB 4X4 6.7 Aisin Mega Cab, EBC slotted disks and brakes, Titan fuel tank.
Montana Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 08:53 PM   #6
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,764
M.O.C. #11455
One thing to remember is that if it gets really cold your heating methods will allow pipes to freeze and posibly the water pump to freeze since it holds water in the pump housing. The furnace running is meant to pump heat into the spaces where these reside, whereas just heating the living area won't do it.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 08:56 PM   #7
KYRattler
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Lexington
Posts: 6
M.O.C. #27645
Daryles,

Funny you should mention Gorilla Tape. I blew the coupling off the cold side intercooler tube on the way home the other night. One of Ford's miserable love affairs with plastic engine parts!

Anyhow, without a spare tube, I was boostless on the side of the road. With a clever yoke I made from Gorilla Tape, I was able to hold that tube against the throttle body for the half hour drive home, and up a mountain no less!
KYRattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 10:00 PM   #8
AZ Traveler
Site Team
 
AZ Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,507
M.O.C. #20477
For the fans to function properly outside air is required. They are working the way they should. If the rig was perfectly sealed the fans would not move air.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL

"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
AZ Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 10:11 PM   #9
dieselguy
Montana Master
 
dieselguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,246
M.O.C. #3085
I've posted and reposted this link several times in answer to people with draft issues. The factory still makes them nearly identical to my 2011 unit with the dropped frame. If you remove the pass thru storage rear wall you can look right down into the underbelly which as stated by DutchmenSport is no where near air tight. Here's some photos though dated showing nearly the same situation 10 years later.
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...ht=design+flaw
dieselguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2021, 03:01 PM   #10
TAKPAK
Montana Master
 
TAKPAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 593
M.O.C. #8238
vent fans

As has been mentioned, you MUST have a source of "makeup" outside air for the vent fans to work right. We have the same problem, with cold air coming out of the furnace vent. Simple solution, while running the bath or kitchen exhaust fans, crack open the nearest window to the fan. Yes, it will bring in cold air, but it will take the shortest/easiest route to the fan. Doing that should eliminate most, if not all the cold air coming in from the furnace vent. You could also do like the "manufactured homes" do for fireplaces/stoves that are installed. They create an air intake vent directly connected to, or under the fireplace/stove so it doesn't create a draft or starve the stove for air. But, that is a little more involved!
__________________
Terry and Patsy
Vietnam Veteran, US Navy
2017 3810
2015 GMC Sierra 4X4 3500 SRW
TAKPAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2021, 04:25 PM   #11
bcrvman
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Qualicum Beach
Posts: 636
M.O.C. #26399
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYRattler View Post
Hello all, please excuse if this has been answered somewhere on here. I'll blame the Google and forum search algorithms for keeping it hidden.

Anyhow, just like the title states, we have outside-temperature air being drawn into the coach while the bathroom/kitchen exhaust fan(s) are being used.

We are full timers in our 377FL, and as fall/winter presses in on us, I'm trying like a little Dutch boy to put a finger on all the gaps installed at the factory in Elkhart. I've filmed the single pane sliding windows and Reflectix'd all the bedroom windows. I've placed extra weatherstripping around the door frame gaps.

Between the electric fireplace, the main AC electric HEATER, and a radiant oil heater in the bedroom, I can keep it toasty when the frost hits... WITHOUT using the propane furnace. However, should we take a shower or "release any demons" in the bathroom, the awesome vent fan will draw an enormity of cold air through the intake of the furnace (which I'm sure is coming from the pass-through storage bay). I've checked this with an oil infuser in front of all the likely suspects of cold air. The furnace is the culprit.

Am I missing any secrets or RV lifehacks? My chilly-willy wife thanks you in advance!

PS: No, I will not stop using the fan... Moisture and "demons" are not friendly to small space living.
Normal operation. If you are going to exhaust air, it has to be replaced from somewhere.
__________________
2018 Keystone Montana 3811MS
2017 Ford F450 diesel dually
600AH Battle Born Lithium Batteries, 1,080 watts solar
3,000 watt hybrid inverter with 120A charger
bcrvman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.