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Old 01-20-2020, 09:54 AM   #1
ExPatNW
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Frame Flex Survey

Before I start, this is not a witch hunt, or an opportunity to complain about quality control at Keystone. I have owned two keystone products now and they have had issues which Keystone has always come through and fixed. One they fixed for us was well outside of the warranty period, but they fixed it anyway. All RVs have their problems, the roads can be very bumpy!

So i noticed at a recent RV show that the 2020 Montana 3790/91 RD has a different design around the front left near the bedroom slide than our older 3790RD does. My suspicion is this is to try and stop the rigs from developing the Frame Flex problem.

I wanted to gather some data from more owners, so put together a short (ish) survey. You can access it here https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/Xeaalepd

I hope it shows that owners with the newer rigs are not having this problem (but I realize that people with 2020 models won't have had them for that long and perhaps the problem has not materialized yet).

My 2017 does not have the pull out tray rear storage and also does not have the full window on the rear wall in the den which I really like, so one day I might move to a newer model than out 2017.

Anyway - if you have 2 mins and like filling out surveys do me a favor and fill it out? Its focus really is Montana/High Country/Big Sky from about 2015 to 2020.
 
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:11 PM   #2
Vet4jdc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExPatNW View Post
Before I start, this is not a witch hunt, or an opportunity to complain about quality control at Keystone. I have owned two keystone products now and they have had issues which Keystone has always come through and fixed. One they fixed for us was well outside of the warranty period, but they fixed it anyway. All RVs have their problems, the roads can be very bumpy!

So i noticed at a recent RV show that the 2020 Montana 3790/91 RD has a different design around the front left near the bedroom slide than our older 3790RD does. My suspicion is this is to try and stop the rigs from developing the Frame Flex problem.

I wanted to gather some data from more owners, so put together a short (ish) survey. You can access it here https://freeonlinesurveys.com/s/Xeaalepd

I hope it shows that owners with the newer rigs are not having this problem (but I realize that people with 2020 models won't have had them for that long and perhaps the problem has not materialized yet).

My 2017 does not have the pull out tray rear storage and also does not have the full window on the rear wall in the den which I really like, so one day I might move to a newer model than out 2017.

Anyway - if you have 2 mins and like filling out surveys do me a favor and fill it out? Its focus really is Montana/High Country/Big Sky from about 2015 to 2020.


Are there specific Montana and MHC models that have experienced this issue?
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:18 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Vet4jdc View Post
Are there specific Montana and MHC models that have experienced this issue?
I know for certainty that the 3790/1 and the 3700/1 are affected.

I cannot say about the others.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:22 PM   #4
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I hope this survey gets participation to yield results for all of us.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:23 PM   #5
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ExPatNW - very good survey.
However - the last question with the pics of the front slide do not apply to my unit. I picked the first photo with the greater dimension, but if I had an option for “C. Neither apply to my unit” I would have picked that option. See my pic below. I have wondered if my unit might be immune from frame flex due to the location of the bedroom slide NOT being anywhere in the nose.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:30 PM   #6
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I like the fact that it lets you vote like they do in Chicago. Early and often.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:24 PM   #7
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I did not see the 3761 FL on the list. With 2 front slides maybe mine has 2 times the chances to fail or maybe by 2019 they found someone that could weld. Possibly after all the problems they may even inspect the welds now, naw that would make sense and take 3-4 minutes.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:13 PM   #8
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Hi Mikendebbie - great point - I tried to update the survey but as that question has data against it now it would not let me change the options - which is a shame. Sorry about that.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:18 PM   #9
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Hi CaptnJohn - I "borrowed" the list of models from another website - perhaps that have it wrong. They only listed the 3760/3761 in the 2020 model year.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:05 AM   #10
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John so you are not lulled into not checking. I have frame flex and I have a 2019. So I would keep an eye out if I were you.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExPatNW View Post
Hi Mikendebbie - great point - I tried to update the survey but as that question has data against it now it would not let me change the options - which is a shame. Sorry about that.
ExPatNW - you should be able to adjust results to some degree since you are capturing model and year. You can subtract some number of votes on the nose dimension pic question for those of us that have a model that (perhaps) does not apply. I am not saying that my model is immune to frame flex - I just don’t know for sure.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:52 AM   #12
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We have had two Montana's the 06 3400 and now the 2013 3402. We did not have frame flex on either of them although we had what LOOKED like frame flex the actual problem was the sidewall pulling loose from the aluminum framing. Keystone repaired both but the frame was not broken in the over hang. I wonder how many frame flex problems are not frame flex at all.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:34 AM   #13
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@MikenDebbie - agree - I think this approach would work.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:57 AM   #14
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As Monty Parks pointed out previously, there are two issues. Frame flex and wall flex. Richfaa mentioned this above.
We had wall flex.
Model. 2019. 3130re
The aluminum weld broke on the vertical stud next to the bedroom slide. We had it fixed last week (missed Quartzsite) at Affinity in Elkhart In. THEY DID AN AWESOME JOB!!! And fast!!! Along with a few other minor warranty repairs including replacing the 50A breaker with the 80A one to fix the hydraulic pump issues. Works great now!!
BTW, at the rally in September we had a lippert tech look at ours and he said we were fine. At that time there was just the bulge in the outside wall. No damage was visible inside the bedroom closet.
Since then DW noticed the split in the wall at the bottom of the closet. We notified Keystone. Standard answer, take it to a dealer CW??? No way!!!! We took it to Affinity.
THEY ARE GREAT!!!!
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:57 AM   #15
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Easier for me to provide simple answer to your survey, Never a frame issue on any of our four units
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:59 PM   #16
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We attended the national rally in 2017 and had some items that the factory was repairing when they brought the flex to my attention. Even though I had been aware of the issue through this forum and had "tried to keep an eye out" for it I had not detected anything unusual. The two service engineers in the repair center saw it and subsequently fixed the problem. The movement they described to me was movement at the seem of a 1/4" or less which will indicate the problem.

There were several others in there for the same issue. Once was a 2009 and another was a brand new one. While it is clearly a bad thing, I have to give Montana credit for taking care of the problem on my unit and others even older all at no charge.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:09 PM   #17
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Had an 07 3075 which had frame flex
Current 2013 3400 Big sky has frame flex which has been worked on 4 times, twice at the factory. Asked them to look at it at last falls rally but would not, so no more Montana’s for me.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:03 AM   #18
richfaa
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Had an 07 3075 which had frame flex
Current 2013 3400 Big sky has frame flex which has been worked on 4 times, twice at the factory. Asked them to look at it at last falls rally but would not, so no more Montana’s for me.
Is it the actual broken frame if so that is a serious safety issue
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:02 PM   #19
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Most of you know my rig was repaired as one of the first 3790s to be done. I noticed right before last year's rally that the seam had split again and approached Keystone at the rally. Long story short, our rig leaves 2/3 for a trip back to the factory to be repaired again. They have made a few changes in the way they are repaired since ours, and they asked us to send it back. Also, it is going back to have the delam repaired underneath the rear left den slide. A place that is just about impossible for water to get to the raw end of the wall as it is in about 1/3 of the length the slide. Will keep you guys up to date.

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Old 01-22-2020, 08:04 PM   #20
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Is it the actual broken frame if so that is a serious safety issue
It has been called "frame flex" but most all of them are welds on the aluminum frame or cage that have broken, not the steel Lippert frame.
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