Its cold in here!

[Mike-n-Jen]

Im starting to wonder if our Monty actually has the Arctic Package or not.... Mabey you could help us figure out wether there is something we can do or if we just need to toughen up.

We feel cold quite a bit. I havent found any gaps in these areas; but around the slides, the entry door, under the desk and around the bed are very cold areas. The furnace is set at 70* and we supplement with a ceramic heater. We run the ceiling fan to help mix it all up, that helps but we still feel cold.

We have not had any water freezups even down to +5 degrees. We are going through a propane bottle every 4 days or so. The snow on the Monty doesnt seem to melt off any faster than it does on the other trailers around us. I have sealed up any gaps I have found in the basement and around the stove vent. We have single pane windows, and I dont have but half of the windows filmed so far.

Does this sound about right for our situation? Is our propane usage normal, its getting expensive. Were spending about $120 a month in propane plus our electric usage.

Thanks for your thoughts
Mike

[JH Sechelt]

Hi Mike,

I think that is about normal. +5 Degrees? 4 days is probably pretty good on a 30 lb bottle. Getting the rest of the windows filmed up will help, maybe stuff a small pillow up in the ceiling vents. I doesn't usually get that cold up here, but I don't think the seals around the slides keep much of the cold out. Might be cheaper renting a 80 gallon Propane tank, just a thought. Let's hope it warms up for you soon.

J&D

[Montana Sky]

Another trick, keep your day nite shades closed. Having single pane windows and your day night shades drawn will give you the same R factor as the dual pane windows with the shades up. Your propane useage sounds pretty normal for the temps you are in. Depending on your electric rate, it might be cheaper to run more space heaters than your furnace set at 70. Try setting your furnace at 50 - 55 to keep your basement warm enough so your pipes dont freeze. During the months of April and October I get temps in the 30's - 40's during the day and 20's - 30's at night. Between the heater on the fireplace, a space heater in the kitchen, one in the bedroom and my furnace set at 52, my coach will usually hold 70 - 72 degrees. Just a thought...

[captbanjo]

Get ready. You could be deluged with 'the Arctic Package is more of a marketing phrase than a guarantee of insulation' responses. At least, in the past, that seems to be the prevailing thought.

[richfaa]

Welcome to the harsh reality of using these things in a manner they are not designed to be used. In Northern Ohio we used 1 30lb tank of propane every 3 1/2 days,Temp set at 70.Right now in Havasu city the wind is out of the north at 27MPH sustained with some fairly good gust. I can look over my shoulder and note the pages of a calender hanging on the wall in the stairwell going up to the bedroom moving just a bit at times ..Humm there is a draft in here and everything is closed up. Could this thing have leaks??? clothing in the bottom drawers will come out cold.Helen Warms her sweats over the heater. A wet shoe or sock left in the stairwell overnight will be real cold in the morning...hummm/ Pots and pans in the cabinet next to the stove and over the slide will be cold to the touch.Yes we know some folks turn the temp down to 55/60 at night to conserve. We did not do that in our stick house we will not do it in our camper. 70 is where we want it. We do keep a small heater in the bedroom to maintain the temp when needed. Propane cost..at 1 tank every 3 1/2 days at 21.00 per tank in N. Ohio to heat a 400 square foot 3400 the cost would be @150.00 per month. Our stick home is over 5 times larger..that propane cost would be @750.00 per month. These campers are drafty and expensive to heat..add in all the "cold weather" mods that folks do and the expense increases. We will not even discuss the effectiveness of the so called Artic package. If the little seal is on the side of your camper you have it...judge the effectiveness for yourself.Once you make the proper adjustments and add on's you will be just fine. Of course our solution to the "cold weather"mods was to come down to Az.That will work every time..

[Mike-n-Jen]

Thanks for sharing these thoughts! Im glad to hear we are running par for the course. We have the vent pillows now I just need to finish filming the windows.

I have noticed that drawing the shades does help. Any frost that is on the windows in the morning when we raise the shades is quckly melted by the warm air inside the trailer.

Thanks again
Mike

[sreigle]

For the temperatures you specify the propane usage sounds about right. Maybe your rv park will provide or arrange a 100 lb propane bottle and bring another when yours is empty? It's usually a bit cheaper that way. We've been in a couple of parks that provide that service.

Inside cabinets seems to always be drafty. You can put some insulation batts or roll in there and coer with foamboard (from walmart). Or just the foamboard. Your door sounds like it needs better weatherstripping or is not tightly adjusted (at the latch).

We stopped using the ceiling fan to circulate the heat. By the time that moving air reached us it was cool and just made us feel cooler. We were comfortable in this Montana but I had all windows filmed except the litle ones on the ends of the slides (long story why not those windows).

Foamboard between windows and shades also helps. It just slides in between shade and window. We buy the foamboard at Walmart in the home/office section. We only use that on windows where we rarely open the shades.

Make sure your electric heaters are not positioned where they are making the thermostat think it is warmer than it is and shutting off the furnace too soon.

Good luck. Being cold is not fun.

[richfaa]

The manufacturers media blitz on "all weather" or cold weather use is miss leading.Ex, keystone tells us the campers are not for all weather or full time use yet offer a " artic package" that suggest it will be ok in very cold weather.The folks on this forum are very innovative in modifying the unit for cold and all season use.For the new user or buyers do not be lulled into the belief that you can drive these things out of the dealers lot, set them up in N.Dakota in Jan and be comfortable.We are fortunate to be able to choose where we live in the camper so we choose warmer climates. There is a lot of expertise on this forum on how to adapt the campers to cold weather use.

[mperk]

What are you all talking about when you say you have the windows filmed?? Is this a heat and cold weather solution?

[Mike-n-Jen]

mperk, window film is an inexpensive kit you can get at hardware stores. It uses double sided tape and a clear plastic sheet you cut to size and stick to the window frame. After its installed use a hairdryer to shrink the wrinkles out of the film. Its a very good temperature barrier for the cost. We have not used it in the heat yet, I have no info for you on that part.

Best of luck!
Mike

[BillyRay]

It was 70 degrees here yesterday!

[dsprik]

I think a lot depends on your outlook on what to expect out of these units. We have camped for years in non-RV equipment in northern Mich. We have a psychological expectation of getting cold when we camp - except for one time in Mackinaw City which Steve (Emmel) and Rich (Richfaa) fondly remember when Cheryl and I thought we were going to suffer heat exhaustion in a cabin.

So when we are in one of these Montanas, we end up pleasantly surprised in cold weather. Of course we also did everything we could to stack the deck. Dual pane windows, fireplace, Arctic Package (such as it is), etc. We have been down to 18 degrees and windy. We have not seen or felt any drafts. Floor was a little cold, but not bad. Rugs help. Running the furnace occassionally helps warm the basement a little and the floor is not as cold. I remember many winter days in a stick house growing up with COLD floors - not so different.

We love camping in cold weather in this. We just remember days gone by when we got up in the morning and had to beat the side of the tent to knock the snow off the door side so we could get out.

This is warm.

Steve, my fan circulates warm air from the fireplace down the side walls (reverse, low) when it's cold out. Maybe the difference is the dual pane?

[Tom Gina 06]

Has anyone ever put skirting around the bottom of their Monty? I though this might help with the floors not being so cold also eliminating some of the drafts coming in from the bottom along the slides. Also have been trying to figure out a way to use some type of portable insulation the put up under the slide area to protect the area where the slide goes in/out. Seems like most of the cold floors are directly related to the area of the slides for obvious reasons. Surely someone has brainstormed this out there.

[dsprik]

Lot's of info coming on this subject, Tom... I personally don't have any experience with skirting, but I know some have had snaps installed and then put on canvas (custom made) skirting. Also some have talked of putting up styrofoam sheeting up under the slide floors. That's all I know. Maybe more than I know...

[jrgwdenner]

I saw an article where a guy put sheets of foam on the ceiling of his basement for added insulation. I think he just wedged it between the framing. I'm not sure about attaching it under the slides. Others have put the same sheets behind the dresser drawers, on the back of cupboards, etc. I know a rug in our kitchen area is a welcome addition.

[Wrenchtraveller]

Dave said
Steve, my fan circulates warm air from the fireplace down the side walls (reverse, low) when it's cold out. Maybe the difference is the dual pane?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave, I have stayed in 20 degree temps in units with regular windows and my Montana with the dual pane windows is much more comfortable at these freezing temps IMHO. The Arctic Package should include the dual pane glass.

[richfaa]

Well this is the first time we have spent a long time in chilly weather.This AM it was 39.5 here in Havasu City, Az.There must be something seriously wrong with this 3400. As I sit here at the PC desk my feet under the desk are chilly (it is 41). When I took a pan out from under the kitchen counter(up against the wall) it was cold. Just reached into the cabinet over the PC desk to get some software...it is chilly in there.Stepped out side to put the trash out..it is downright cold in the step down stairwell.Last night we had a 1500 watt convection heater on in the living area and a 1500 watt ceramic heater on the top step facing into the living area and the furnace set at 70 degrees. The furnace came on several times during the night.The heaters could not maintain 70 inside the camper a 30 degree difference.(no wind)
We have plugged up all the holes in the flooring.. all the seals around the slides look good.With the day night shades down we feel no draft from the window area.The slide flooring is chilly,all slides. vinyl floor in the kitchen area is chilly as is the potty room flooring. Now if this is sort of normal we are OK if not we have serious problems with this 3400 and will need to have a chat with Keystone..

[dsprik]

I don't know, Rich. We have had extended temps in the 30s in NC a few times. It was a little cool but I don't think it was as uncomfortable as your situation.

BTW, you're on the wrong end of the country. We are pushing 80 again today. 79 right now. We were able to make it until 1 PM before having to kick on the A/C (we're paying for electric). Cold snap coming though.

Next 5 days (Lake Buena Vista, Disney): 77/58, 80/57, 80/57, 80/55, 69/49 (then upper 60's for a couple days before rebounding). You guys out west are getting REALLY cold weather. We've been close to setting record highs a few times here in Central FL.

[JH Sechelt]

Rich,

I'd say ours is about the same, Slide area is cooler then the main part of the trailer.
I don't think aluminum framing is the best thing for cold weather. Aluminum transfers the cold from outside to in.
Wood framing would be much warmer. Easy fix............
Move farther south .

[Army Guy]

Hey Tom, I've got a vinyl skirt around my monty and I feel it does make a difference. The temps for the last couple days have been in the teens here in central Kansas and I do get drafts around the slides. We have a space heater going in the living room along with the fireplace and it works. We have the temp set at 65. We might have to put on an extra sweater or something in the evening. I agree that it would be better to go south for the winter but I am not in that position where we can yet.

As far as the skirt goes, I went with the snaps and vinyl because I like the idea of it being portable verses a wood skirt as I've seen others do. I do like to camp in the cold weather, just not in the single digits or teens.