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Old 11-08-2021, 01:13 PM   #1
Ahdmeyer
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Changing to lithium

i am looking at changing to lithium batteries. may stay over night boondocking and possibly again at quartzite. no solar and do have a small inverter generator 3000 watt. 3931fb montana residential refridgerator. would 2 100 ah lithium batteries get me thought the nite and what do i have to do to make this change ?
thx al
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Old 11-08-2021, 01:46 PM   #2
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Probably all you need to do is change a setting on your converter to fully charge the lithium batteries. I had to buy a new converter as mine was an old one 2007 model with out a setting for the higher charge voltage 14.6 volts to fully charge the lithium batteries. It wont hurt your batteries to charge them to 13.6 volts but you will not get all the amp hours they are rated for. Mine would only be charged to 80%. Your batteries should come with a gage to tell you the percentage of charge.
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Old 11-08-2021, 03:33 PM   #3
Ahdmeyer
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thx mlh which batteries did you end up gettting? do you have a residential fridge?
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:21 PM   #4
mlh
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No I don’t have a residential refrigerator.
I got a Lion Energy 1300 battery. I choose it for several reasons. It was about a hundred dollars cheaper at $899 than other good batteries at the time. And had the safe guards that you should, read must have in a lithium battery. It was a good battery and had 105 amp hours. Most are a hundred.
The prices on these keep changing so shop around.
Now let me say this I know just enough to get me in trouble so do your research and don’t just take my word.
There might be another option for you, a small inverter generator. Harbor Freight has a very nice one. It’s 2000 watts 1600 running watts and $505 right now. I have 4 generators, a 2000 watt and a 3500 watt Harbor Freight a 3000 watt Honda. All three great generators and a 4000 watt Onan that we don’t wont to talk about. You could have a inverter running at the back of your camper and may not be able to hear it from the front of your camper especially if you had the bedroom door closed.
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:29 PM   #5
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First, hope to meet you at Quartzsite. We are signed up. 200 ah of lithium will definitely get you through the night with your fridge. A standard 12v deep cycle is 88 amp, 44 amp hr usable. So, that would be like having 4+ 12v deep cycle batteries. The other advantage - they charge much faster. Not knowing which converter you have, it is hard to say. A few years back Keystone switched to one capable of charging lithium. We use two Honda 2000’s as backup to our Super Solar. Lithium batteries are great, even without solar. Good luck.
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:59 PM   #6
Ahdmeyer
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thx for the reply I will do more research on the batteries. Agreed they dont come cheap but the warranty is 10 years if they stand behind it i do have a 3000 watt generac inverter/ generator to recharge the batteries but the ones in there now from keystone are just 2 marine batteries plus i put in a third one and it is plugged in in my garage when not being used, i think this az heat is also hard on batteries. i unplugged it today and they only lasted 3 hrs with nothing else on. thats why i want to replace them not sure if i can get away with 2 I hope.
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Old 11-08-2021, 06:23 PM   #7
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thx for the reply I will do more research on the batteries. Agreed they dont come cheap but the warranty is 10 years if they stand behind it i do have a 3000 watt generac inverter/ generator to recharge the batteries but the ones in there now from keystone are just 2 marine batteries plus i put in a third one and it is plugged in in my garage when not being used, i think this az heat is also hard on batteries. i unplugged it today and they only lasted 3 hrs with nothing else on. thats why i want to replace them not sure if i can get away with 2 I hope.
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al meyer
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A couple of things. How warm do you want to keep the trailer? If youare good with 60 at night, you are probably good now - unless we get a cold freeze in AZ - happened once in my 34 years here. I have camped in Big Horns in Wy where ice formed on the mud puddles. I can make it thru until morning with my 2 6V batteries if I am careful and don't run a bunch of lights in the afternoon or evening. The furnace is the killer. I believe they take around 10 amp/hr when running. At 35 degrees or so I think mine ran about 75% of the time - which is 7-8AH. So if you start at 8 pm and run it until 6 am, that is 10 x 8 or 80AH with nothing else running. Since you aren't supposed to run regular batteries below 50%, you need 160AH of battery. I have run mine to almost 0 a few times and they still lasted 5 years at least. Since youhave a genny, all you need is enough to get thru the night and fire it up in the morning.
Good luck.

EDIT: I forgot the 2nd thing. LOL
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Old 11-08-2021, 06:25 PM   #8
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Look inside your circuit breaker panel for a white lable. It will have your converter model number.
You can look up the specs and manuals for your model on PD website.
For example mine is a Progressive Dynamics PD4575K18LS8.
It is not lithium ready but there is a charge wizzard mode select button (next to the green flashing light). I can set it to boost mode and it puts out 14.6vdc for 4 hours then it reverts back to normal mode automatically.
I put in 4 lithium batteries and I kept the original (new) FLA battery as a back up. I installed a battery select switch so I can control which battery group is selected.
As said above, lithium batteries charge fast.
Just don't charge them at below freezing temperatures.
Here is an excellent article about it.

How to find happiness with lithium batteries
https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep...tteries-happy/
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Old 11-09-2021, 04:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Daryles View Post
Look inside your circuit breaker panel for a white lable. It will have your converter model number.
You can look up the specs and manuals for your model on PD website.
For example mine is a Progressive Dynamics PD4575K18LS8.
It is not lithium ready but there is a charge wizzard mode select button (next to the green flashing light). I can set it to boost mode and it puts out 24.6vdc for 4 hours then it reverts back to normal mode automatically.
I put in 4 lithium batteries and I kept the original (new) FLA battery as a back up. I installed a battery select switch so I can control which battery group is selected.
As said above, lithium batteries charge fast.
Just don't charge them at below freezing temperatures.
Here is an excellent article about it.

How to find happiness with lithium batteries
https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep...tteries-happy/
I dont think the output voltage in boost mode is actually as high as you are stating.... I think it is more like 14.4
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Old 11-09-2021, 06:14 AM   #10
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I dont think the output voltage in boost mode is actually as high as you are stating.... I think it is more like 14.4
Corrected.
Thanks 😊
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Old 11-09-2021, 05:50 PM   #11
Ahdmeyer
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some very good info from everyone. Been checking out the batteries . what brand do you use and why?
al meyer
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Old 11-09-2021, 06:35 PM   #12
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The price and brands of these batteries is changing so fast what I or someone else has is probably outdated. So look around and find up to date specs. I have a Lion but I noticed other good batteries are now as cheap or even cheaper. Just be sure the one you choose has all the safe guards.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:00 PM   #13
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I will tell you we have the Battleborn Game Changers. After a lot of research, the recommendation from the Super Solar provider, Future Sales was to go with them for the Super Solar system at Keystone. We have been very satisfied with them.
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Old 11-14-2021, 01:20 PM   #14
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Is 200 Ah enough?

I have been dry camping with my 2019 Montana with residential refrigerator since day one. I monitor every night's use with my victron fuel gauge as I call it. It records every amp hour in or out of the batteries. On normal overnight stays I use approximately 100 amp hours running the refrigerator. I use an additional 100 amp hours on a cold night where I have to run the furnace. So for your instance if you have 200 amp hours of lithium which you can use about 80% of that you will be good for one night and a little bit left over. What you want to explore is to put some solar on your roof. I will be at quartzite this year and I'll probably bring some solar panels along with me. I have eight of them on my roof, you can find these all around the Phoenix area for $25 each for $185 watt panels.
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Old 11-14-2021, 01:35 PM   #15
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Boondocking with residential Refrigerator

Here is one nights reading boondocking.

TIME DATE AH reading AH DIFFERENCE HOURS Amphours per hour
16:58 Nov 12, 2021 0
21:59 Nov 12, 2021 -167.1 -167.1 5h 1m 39s -33.237
07:10 Nov 13, 2021 -270 -102.9 9h 11m 7s -11.202
07:39 Nov 13, 2021 -293 -23 29m -0.013
13:26 Nov 13, 2021 -9 284 5h 46m 39s. 49.156

I have a 3000 watt house inverter and a 1000 watt invert for the residential refrigerator only.

We parked at 5 pm and powered up the residential inverter for sat tv and relaxing time. No microwave or Air Conditioner/heat pump.

We went to bed at 10 pm so I turned off they house inverter. We have the furnace on and I use a CPAP off 12 volts.

You can see that we use 290 amp hours from t pm to 7:30 am. I estimate 400 amp hours in 24 hours.

The half hour reading was making two cups of coffee.

I use a victron battery monitor reading current draw.

I hope this helps you analyze what you might need.

Safe travel and have a Blessed Day.
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Old 11-14-2021, 05:06 PM   #16
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There's a lot more to it then changing out batteries! and all are not created equal! look for a manufacturer that has aluminum shielding inside the battery case, a thermal runaway could cause a fire. There's also different charge rates for these batteries and you can't just use any charger, so look into it and be diligent about your research because it ciould save you a very expensive fix and ruin your trip!
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Old 11-14-2021, 07:59 PM   #17
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There's a lot more to it then changing out batteries! and all are not created equal! look for a manufacturer that has aluminum shielding inside the battery case, a thermal runaway could cause a fire. There's also different charge rates for these batteries and you can't just use any charger, so look into it and be diligent about your research because it ciould save you a very expensive fix and ruin your trip!



Lithium iron phosphate is not susceptible to runaway. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I have not seen a non LiFePO4 chemistry drop-in battery offered in the market. LiFePO4 charge curves are consistent for the same chemistry. Granted there may be suttle differences in the voltages specified for charged status and float stage but these are based upon bms differences. Plenty of good quality batteries offered on the market without aluminum "shielding" inside the cell cases.
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Old 11-14-2021, 08:59 PM   #18
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Costco here in Utah has a sale. 2 for $1399. I have 4 and going to buy 2 more.
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Old 11-14-2021, 11:01 PM   #19
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i am looking at changing to lithium batteries. may stay over night boondocking and possibly again at quartzite. no solar and do have a small inverter generator 3000 watt. 3931fb montana residential refridgerator. would 2 100 ah lithium batteries get me thought the nite and what do i have to do to make this change ?
thx al
3931fb
az
Beware of cost. You will need a DC to DC charger if you want to charge your battery’s with vehicle otherwise you can damage alternator. If you have solar you need the correct controller and battery monitor. Converts needs to be set to lithium. If you have a 3000 watt generator and don’t go off grid often I would try that first .
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Old 11-15-2021, 05:36 AM   #20
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I do marine damage claims and had a case recently where Lifepo4 batteries thermally ran away and flame vented out teh sides of their cases. I've done a lot of research on this! They willnot flame vent with aluminum shielding due to teh low heat of a thermal runaway 300 degrees however its enough heat to melt through plastic. These batteries also have BMP's installed on teh batteries and improper charging can damage the BMP along with battery life. I suggest you do better research than "going out on the limb". Not all batteries are equal and they are safer alegedly than Lion, but each installation I've seen requires special equipment to ensure that safety. These batteries have to be carged between 20 and 80% no more no less or battery life is shortened considerably!
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