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Old 11-19-2021, 08:02 AM   #1
Martyw69
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Level up system

I have a 2020 3780rl and am current parked for an extended period in AZ
When I set up at the site I did the normal auto level procedure and everything worked . After 2 weeks we seemed to be a little out of level so I tried to auto level again and I get no response as far as movement system times out. In manual mode all I get is clicking but again nothing runs . I have checked voltage at batteries, both side of to auto reset circuit breaker and to the solenoid all read 13.2 volts
Any thoughts as to what has happened. I’m parked on a pretty level concrete pad and hooked to shore power. Dealer suggested rehooking power from truck with same results
 
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Old 11-19-2021, 08:42 AM   #2
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Marty,

Try taking all power off your rig including disconnecting your battery bank. If you have a logic issue with the level up control panel that may reset it.
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:53 AM   #3
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The "clicking" might be a clue. It is possible you have a battery issue. You could be reading 13.2 volts if your converter is on-line, but the converter on its own will not run the hydraulics; it has to have the help of a good battery. Hooking up to the truck as your dealer suggested may or may not provide enough current for the hydraulics; I doubt it would. A quick test would be to disconnect shore power and then measure your battery voltage. If the voltages drops off quickly, you have a battery issue. If the battery is good, continue as Zach suggested; turn off your battery disconnect for a minute to reset the system.
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Old 11-19-2021, 12:14 PM   #4
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If it's really cold where you are at, run the furnace for a while to put heat into the underbelly on those hydraulic lines. Try it again on a warm day with sunshine on the jacks or use a hair dryer to warm them up a bit. Same for the hydraulic reservoir and pump.
Check to see if you have the upgrade for an 80A circuit breaker on the hydraulic system. There was a TSB put out about that. Yours being 2020 it should have the 80A breaker.
The other thing is some people have found even with the 80A breaker they wired it wrong from the factory and the hydraulic system is going through the 50A breaker.
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:30 PM   #5
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It’s been really warm here most days 88 .where is the 80amp breaker supposed be located. All I see is the 2 large red battery wire going to a 2 wire stud device that I’ve assumed was the auto set circuit breaker. A wire from the battery connects to the right side and a wire leaves the left side for the relay that’s hooked to the motor
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:32 PM   #6
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Should I disconnect the battery cables or just turn off the red master switch to disable the battery power
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyw69 View Post
Should I disconnect the battery cables or just turn off the red master switch
Is this in reference to the suggestion to disconnect shore power? If it is, then no, do neither. You want to unplug your 50 amp 120V power cord from the power pole. Let the RV sit for 15-30 minutes and then check the battery voltage.

If I had to guess, the Red Key switch in the convenience center is in the position where the batteries are disconnected. This is the position where you can remove the Red Key. In the Disconnect position, the batteries are not being charged by the converter. They are needed to level the RV.

The "clicking" sound may also be the 50 amp self resetting circuit breaker failing. Your rig is too new and in too warm of a climate for this normally be a problem, but you may have got a crappy breaker to start with.
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:57 PM   #8
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Carl
I only get the clicking noise when I am in manual mode and am pushing one of the zones to respond. I did make sure a long time ago the that battery was not in the off position in the conveince center. I’m a retired remodeling contractor so I have a pretty good handle on basics but this one has thrown me for a loop
Thanks for your advise and my power off in order to try what you and a couple of others have suggested.I’ve never dealt with a self resetting circuit breaker before so I’ll keep following the advise of those that have
Many thanks
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:56 PM   #9
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Affinity RV Group installed the 80A one in the picture (under warranty). If you follow the fat red wire from the battery box (bottom right) it goes to the first breaker left post. Then you have a short 3" jumper to the 2nd breakers right post. On this post they tied in the 80A breaker that goes to the hydraulic motor dual polarity solenoid.
So electrically speaking, the 80A is tied to the battery + post. By doing this they placed the hydraulic system on its own circuit breaker without changing anything else.
No need to actually replace the existing 50A one. Just put a short 4 gauge jumper from the + side (battery feed side) of the existing 50A breaker to the 80A one then put the cable from the hydraulic pump dual polarity solenoid to the other side of the 80A breaker.

Look in the files section for the TSB on the circuit breaker
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums/downloads.php?do=cat&id=3
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:07 PM   #10
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This document might help you narrow down the problem.

https://support.lci1.com/documents/t...arity-solenoid
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Old 11-20-2021, 06:35 AM   #11
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Marty, hope you get this sorted out quickly so you can enjoy yourself. Last year they started replacing the 50 amp breaker with the 80 amp. I replaced one in my 2015 and have helped others. Even if that isn’t the issue now, spend the few bucks and replace it. Plus, another comment on the battery disconnect. In my opinion it causes more problems and confusion than it is worth. First, many think that turning it off cuts off battery power. It does, but only to some things. Hydraulics and the CO/propane detector are still under power when it is off. And as Carl noted, when off the batteries don’t charge. Keep us posted on your progress. If you get to Monday, LCI is very helpful over the phone. But my guess is the other posters have already given you the solution.
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:30 AM   #12
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The clicking sound you are hearing is the dual polarity solenoid thats mounted on the hyd pump motor.. The resettable breaker isn't going to make that looiud of a noise.. IMO... The dual polarity solenoid will sound just like a car with a dead battery

You can easily make a couple of tests at the dual polarity solenoid to verify the signal voltage present during operation of the level up control panel

What you want to do is measure either at the EXTEND or RETRAC terminal connections on the solenoid itself...and to ground using a multimeter...

If that voltage is dropping much under 12 volts when you operate the level up panel then the solenoid will chatter...

Check all battery terminal connections for corrosion and security. Remove and clean and reinstall.. looing at them won't cure the issue

Also remove the battery cable ground that runs over to the wall frame and make sure the metal is shiny and the terminal end is shiny..

This poorly made video I created will show you where to connect your meter.. you will need a helper to operate the level up panel so you can observe the DC voltage reading during operation...

The video I made is just during auto level but same voltage measurements and readings apply for manual mode

https://youtu.be/bDI3nFz6lUs
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Old 11-21-2021, 12:17 PM   #13
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Thanks to everyone who posted with information and suggestions. I followed the suggestion to do the lippert testing protocol and have figured out that my pump is dead. The relay works but direct power to the motor from one of the hot sides yields no sound or action.
Now all I have to do is get a warantee repair done . The tech at Lippert thought that that was my problem so they have me on record and I’ll be contacting Keystone as my dealer is not calling back
Thanks again you guys are great
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Old 11-21-2021, 03:26 PM   #14
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one last thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyw69 View Post
Thanks to everyone who posted with information and suggestions. I followed the suggestion to do the lippert testing protocol and have figured out that my pump is dead. The relay works but direct power to the motor from one of the hot sides yields no sound or action.
Now all I have to do is get a warantee repair done . The tech at Lippert thought that that was my problem so they have me on record and I’ll be contacting Keystone as my dealer is not calling back
Thanks again you guys are great

Besides running a power wire directly to the pump motor, did you also provide an alternate ground wire to the pump motor?
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Old 11-21-2021, 04:18 PM   #15
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Firestation 12,
No I did not as I followed what the Lippert testing sheet TI-038 told me to do . I did put on voltage meter on it prior to see if I was getting voltage to the motor while keying the switch at the suggestion of the tech at Lippert that’s talked to on Friday and I was getting 13.2 volts prior to removing the motor lead from the solenoid and touching it to power in port on the solenoid . The instructions make no mention of providing an aux ground or where you might hook it. I’m willing to try anything to make sure what the problem is so where would I hook up another ground
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:20 PM   #16
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why not try one last thing

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Firestation 12,
No I did not as I followed what the Lippert testing sheet TI-038 told me to do . I did put on voltage meter on it prior to see if I was getting voltage to the motor while keying the switch at the suggestion of the tech at Lippert that’s talked to on Friday and I was getting 13.2 volts prior to removing the motor lead from the solenoid and touching it to power in port on the solenoid . The instructions make no mention of providing an aux ground or where you might hook it. I’m willing to try anything to make sure what the problem is so where would I hook up another ground

I just checked my pump, and there is a dedicated ground wire going to the frame. If that ground were to be interrupted, the pump would not work, so yeah, I'd run a jumper cable from the pump to the negative battery post, then retry Lippert's trouble shooting instructions.
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Old 11-21-2021, 05:49 PM   #17
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My pump only has 2 terminals one that hooks the upper stud on the solenoid and one that hooks to the lower stud on the solenoid The solenoid has a dedicated ground on the right side of the device and a hot feeds the center stud direct from the batteries via a so called circuit breaker. I’ve crawled under everything and I only have 3 frame ground wires 1 to each battery and the one to the right side of the solenoid . Thanks for suggesting it but yours must be different
Again many thanks
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Old 11-21-2021, 07:59 PM   #18
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You can manually operate your hydraulic pump using a drill.

Manually retracting LCI hydraulic jacks
5/32" Allen wrench


https://youtu.be/XzPMZHGn5a8

Manually manually operating lippert hydraulic slide out
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:14 PM   #19
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This is one of the many videos that I had watched and I hope it doesn’t come to this but Thankyou very much for your thoughts and help
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Old 11-24-2021, 01:34 PM   #20
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Leveler Blocks

I have found when getting is pretty level and I use my anderson blocks out will not work because it can't get enough below level to come back up and level.
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