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11-06-2020, 06:54 AM
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#1
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lombard
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #26857
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Fresh Water Holding Tank Revisited
Here are my findings so far;
Assuming the Fresh water tank holds 50 gal. (as confirmed on this forum)
I drained 6 gal. from the drain valve (after pump ran cont.)
[Water heater in 'bypass' and drained (12gal.) water hold about 1gal. before and after tank drain]
That leaves me with only 44gals. of usable water!
A far cry from the advertised/stated 66gals. Unacceptable!
I will update this post when I hear from Keystone.
__________________
2021 Montana High Country 294RL
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11-06-2020, 07:51 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,664
M.O.C. #9969
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Remember that disclaimer at the bottom of just about any MFRs specs:
"Specs subject to change". Covers them for any difference.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
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11-06-2020, 07:55 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: 1000 oaks
Posts: 955
M.O.C. #19630
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The specs probably say "capacity" not "usable". For calculating weight not how long you can stay in the shower.
__________________
2011 2955RL Gen-Y Executive Kingpin
2022 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Alison
4X4 Crew Cab/Standard bed.
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11-07-2020, 08:41 AM
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#4
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Renton
Posts: 70
M.O.C. #23813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eZAK
Here are my findings so far;
Assuming the Fresh water tank holds 50 gal. (as confirmed on this forum)
I drained 6 gal. from the drain valve (after pump ran cont.)
[Water heater in 'bypass' and drained (12gal.) water hold about 1gal. before and after tank drain]
That leaves me with only 44gals. of usable water!
A far cry from the advertised/stated 66gals. Unacceptable!
I will update this post when I hear from Keystone.
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I'm holding my breath waiting for Keystone's reply. I totally agree with you their 66 gal measures up way too short.
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11-07-2020, 09:37 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eZAK
Here are my findings so far;
Assuming the Fresh water tank holds 50 gal. (as confirmed on this forum)
I drained 6 gal. from the drain valve (after pump ran cont.)
[Water heater in 'bypass' and drained (12gal.) water hold about 1gal. before and after tank drain]
That leaves me with only 44gals. of usable water!
A far cry from the advertised/stated 66gals. Unacceptable!
I will update this post when I hear from Keystone.
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So you came up with 50+6+6=62 vs brochure's 66.
Now I realize that 4 gallons would mean someone will miss a shower, but it still seems a bit trivial to me.
and thinking you have only 44 gallons of usable, means you are not charging your system when you fill up? Why would you not do that?
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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11-07-2020, 10:09 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,321
M.O.C. #17894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffba
So you came up with 50+6+6=62 vs brochure's 66.
Now I realize that 4 gallons would mean someone will miss a shower, but it still seems a bit trivial to me.
and thinking you have only 44 gallons of usable, means you are not charging your system when you fill up? Why would you not do that?
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I agree. About 5 mins after I start to fill the tank (gravity fill port) I turn on the pump and fill the heater until it flows out of all fixtures, hot and cold. Continue filling until it comes out of the vent hole. I do not use the pressure fill in the convivence center. They should have never gotten rid of the gravity fill port IMHO.
__________________
2018 Chevy 3500 LTZ Dually Diesel 4x4 CCLB
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes. Curt Q24 Hitch. 5 step glow steps
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS
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12-01-2020, 08:30 PM
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#7
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lombard
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #26857
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I did hear back from Keystone RV.
Their reply was; "Your fifth wheel was installed with a 54 gallon fresh water tank. The water heater holds 12 gallons. Combined equals 66 gallons."
Just to clarify!
The Water Heater is NOT a fresh water tank!
At least in my 30yrs. of experience it hasn't been!
[My previous 5'r had a stated capacity of 62gals. of which 60gals. were usable. The 10gal. W.H. was Not factored in]
But hey, Anything is possible!
Maybe I'm supposed to put the water heater in bypass so I can drain that water and use it.
Or maybe the industry changed in the last 10yrs. since I brought new.
And maybe it IS common knowledge now, that as a prospective buyer,
one should automatically deduct the W.H. capacity from the stated fresh
water holding tank.
To jeffba,
You stated; "So you came up with 50+6+6=62 vs brochure's 66.
Now I realize that 4 gallons would mean someone will miss a shower, but it still seems a bit trivial to me.
and thinking you have only 44 gallons of usable, means you are not charging your system when you fill up? Why would you not do that?"
Sorry, But your assumptions are incorrect!
We always travel with the water heater full, lines full, and pump off until needed.
Fresh water tank (according to Keystone) is 54 gals. Minus 6 gals of unusable equals 48 gals.
__________________
2021 Montana High Country 294RL
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12-01-2020, 08:41 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Lamesa
Posts: 621
M.O.C. #26010
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Not to pile on but it does seem trivial to me. I have always read the stats on my new trailers and hoped for the best then lived within the confines of whatever that might be. I am, I guess, a professional nitpicker but of all the things I wanted to nitpick it wouldn't be the capacity of any of my holding tanks...we all know that is "whatever it is" and then, what do you do....sue somebody - for 4 gals of water?.
__________________
Danny and Susan wife of 55 years
2019 Ram Laramie 3500 6.4 4x4 CC 4.10 SRW
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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12-01-2020, 08:49 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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I realize you feel mislead by brochure advertising, but I'd guess the FW tank is a standard size (same) though out most all Montana models. Many of us live with what we have and others use a bladder to add to the OEM capacity. Other than vent ... you won't change much other than kick dust. Depending on how you are setup at another campsite, you may get another 4 gallons from the 6 you currently discount as unusable.
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12-02-2020, 05:55 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eZAK
I did hear back from Keystone RV.
Their reply was; "Your fifth wheel was installed with a 54 gallon fresh water tank. The water heater holds 12 gallons. Combined equals 66 gallons."
Just to clarify!
The Water Heater is NOT a fresh water tank!
At least in my 30yrs. of experience it hasn't been!
[My previous 5'r had a stated capacity of 62gals. of which 60gals. were usable. The 10gal. W.H. was Not factored in]
But hey, Anything is possible!
Maybe I'm supposed to put the water heater in bypass so I can drain that water and use it.
Or maybe the industry changed in the last 10yrs. since I brought new.
And maybe it IS common knowledge now, that as a prospective buyer,
one should automatically deduct the W.H. capacity from the stated fresh
water holding tank.
To jeffba,
You stated; "So you came up with 50+6+6=62 vs brochure's 66.
Now I realize that 4 gallons would mean someone will miss a shower, but it still seems a bit trivial to me.
and thinking you have only 44 gallons of usable, means you are not charging your system when you fill up? Why would you not do that?"
Sorry, But your assumptions are incorrect!
We always travel with the water heater full, lines full, and pump off until needed.
Fresh water tank (according to Keystone) is 54 gals. Minus 6 gals of unusable equals 48 gals.
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So basically if you charge you water heater when you fill up your water tank you would have 12 more usable gallons. I would think you would be happy with that!
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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12-02-2020, 07:09 AM
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#11
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Established Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Volant
Posts: 47
M.O.C. #26178
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water tank
we have camped for years in horsetrailers and motorhomes and now a montana and the deal is you take enough water to do what you want to do. We have had 35 gal tanks and now we take 2 55gal drums of water one for the horses and the other for the camper. Get er done !!!!
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12-02-2020, 08:00 AM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 383
M.O.C. #21993
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Everything I see from Keystone about Montana says "Fresh Water 66 gal", not 66 gal tank. If you get really picky even that may be incorrect if you add all the water in the lines it's probably 68 gal.
__________________
I was once intelligent beyond my years. Now, I’m years beyond my intelligence.
2020 Montana 3561 Legacy, everything except paint.
2018 Silverado 3500 DRW, 50Gal Transfer Flow, Andersen hitch.
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12-02-2020, 11:06 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,569
M.O.C. #2283
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You say this is unacceptable OK.
But what are you going to do it?
Sue Keystone? Have them install a bigger tank just for you? Good luck. It would be cheaper to just buy a new camper.
Lynwood
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12-02-2020, 11:37 AM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,957
M.O.C. #20477
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If this is your biggest issue sounds like you have a good trailer. Its easy to carry some spare water.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL
"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
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12-03-2020, 05:59 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bastrop
Posts: 2,892
M.O.C. #20753
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This is a tough thread
__________________
Mocha, one-eyed toothless, hurricane survivor, Pirate dog
2019 20th Anniversary Edition 3701LK
B&W 20K for Ford OEM Puck
2018 Ford F-350 Lariat CCLB PSD DRW KJ5CQH
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12-16-2020, 10:32 PM
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#16
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Lombard
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #26857
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It IS a Tough Thread!
But Hey, brand loyalist and narcissist rule the day!
There is a lot of assumptions and misinformation being posted!
So to clear the air here is what Keystone's final word is;
(Pertaining to the Montana and Montana High Country lines)
The "Fresh Water 66gal" in all our spec sheets and else ware, "refers to the fresh water System capacity, and not just the fresh water tank"
I wish I would have known to assume this when shopping for a new 5'vr
The take-a-way on all this IS (with out blinders) Truth in Advertising !!
__________________
2021 Montana High Country 294RL
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12-17-2020, 05:49 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 2,321
M.O.C. #17894
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I certainly don't know for sure but I would bet the most manufacturers calculate their water supply in a similar fashion.. at least including the water that's in the water heater
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12-17-2020, 06:10 AM
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#18
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Grimes
Posts: 52
M.O.C. #27687
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In my youth I remember getting really mad when I learned my 27 gallon fuel capacity pickup only let me put 22 gallons in it. Was a real head scratcher.
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12-17-2020, 11:55 PM
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#19
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Established Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Miller County
Posts: 20
M.O.C. #27069
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What is the best way to “charge” the water heater when filling using the power fill?
__________________
2020 Montana High Country 377FL
Edge CTSV2 Diesel Tuner
Airlift LoadLifter 5000 bags
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12-18-2020, 04:59 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,152
M.O.C. #25165
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I make sure the water heater bypass is NOT engaged, then hook up with normal flow. When I can't hear water running in the water heater anymore, usually about 2 minutes or so, I go inside and run hot water in kitchen and bath room. Granted, the water is cold since heater isn't on, but that gets air out of the hot water lines and ensures the water heater is full.
Then switch over to power fill and fill the FW tank as desired, typically until it runs out the side. This also makes sure all your lines, cold and hot, are full of water too.
BTW, you don't want or need the water pump on for this process. The city connection pressure will do the work for you.
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
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