Solar Install for a 2016 3160RL - Sanity Check

[mjammersc]

Now that I've made it through the holidays, I have been designing the solar install for our 2016 3160RL and it is time for a sanity check on the design and . Here are the highlights and a few questions:

- 3 Suniva OPT-285W Panels (or 335W if fit as same price)
- 10ga extenders to a roof combiner and then 4ga to the controller
- Morningstar MPPT-60 Solar Charge Controller & RM-2 Remote Display
- 2 ga wire out of the controller
- Midnite Solar Babybox with breakers (40A in 80A out) around the controller
- Trimetric TM-2030-RV Battery Monitor
-6 Trojan T-105 (possible -RE versions) 225AH each/675 AH total
- Battery and Inverter wired with 4/0 Welding cable
- Magnum MS2812 Inverter/Charger w/ME-RC50 Remote Controller
- 400A fuse block for Inverter feed
- AC Subpanel fed by inverter with wiring in PVC conduit
- Two 30A feeds from Power Center to Inverter pass thru transfer switch

This ends up with a 855W array feeding the MPPT-60 (800W Max) into 675 AH of storage. I ran fairly conservative power budget and would be in the 250-300AH usage without any real attempt at conservation which was my goal. I used the PVWatts online analysis tool for my region (northern Indiana) and should be able to replace this level of power on an average day March - October.

Does this all sound like I have the bases covered and design fairly solid? Any gaps/errors/suggestions? Volunteers to help install

A couple open questions on the install still:

- Has anyone done an install on a 3160RL (or similar layout) and can share pictures, cable routing, etc? Especially curious on the panel layout on the roof and the cable routing down into the unit to the front storage. Trying to decide on the bath grey vent vs a hole above the "coat" closet.

- Where have people placed their AC subpanel typically? Pass thru vs front storage compartment vs somewhere inside the unit?

- How close to the side edges of the roof can you safely mount the panels? These are 40" wide and trying to keep as far from everything shadow generating means one above the front half will need to be right to the edge of the trailer I believe.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mark

[Bigboomer]

Mark,

Looks like you have the basis covered and you have done your research. Couple of notes:

Based on your battery bank of 6 - 225 Amp batteries as noted that will give you 675 amps at 12 volts. With this in mind that will give you 337 usable amps (50% of the total). You mentioned that without conserving you will get into 250 to 300 amps of daily usage. If that is the case you will everybit of the next days sun to get those batteries back to at least 90%. You may want to assess your usage needs to keep those amp hours down. Not that you cannot use 50% of the storage but it is not recommended for an everyday occurrence as this will shorten your battery life.

As for where to place those subpanels I installed a new cabinet in the bath and re-routed the wiring to it where the subpanels, Trimeric RV-2030 is located and Progressive EMS is wired.

Your set up is very similar to our design with a few exceptions such as the manufacturers of the panels, batteries and the charge controller.

Here is a link to pics of my install:

http://s962.photobucket.com/user/myb...Solar%20System

Good luck with your install!

Les

[7.3Ford]

Mark,

Welcome the forum. Check out my blog at the following URL's, will answer a lot of the questions you asked.

http://montana3611rl.blogspot.com/20...automatic.html

http://montana3611rl.blogspot.com/20...packed-up.html

I used #10 wire from each panel to just inside the Montana, and have a 10 AMP breaker for each panel. Output for the breaker goes to bus bar, and #6 wire to battery location where the MorningStar TRISTAR MPPT 60 controller is. The extra watts on the panels will not hurt the MorningStar controller, it will just limit the output to 60 AMPS, and this time of the year in Charlotte, NC we only see 550-600 Watts out of the 840 Watts on the roof. Usually the batteries are in Float before max power is reached, so full power is rarely seen, may 5 or 6 times in the last year, where the output was limited.

My Trojan's are 6 years old, and have trouble with high starting current draws like microwave or vacuum clear (the AC output will drop the the transfer switch drops). I am also waiting on some Boost cap's which can deliver high current (500-1000 AMPS) for sort period of time (20-30 seconds) and are rated at 1,000,000 cycles. I will post more on my blog as I get things built.

I am also working on a battery upgrade. I have four 200 AH @ 12V Lithium Battery pack for a 2015 Chevy Volt on there way. The Chevy Volt Batteries have liquid cooling/heating, and I plan to use that. I have a small radiator with fan, and small electric water pump. Keeping the batteries from overheating extends the life.

[Mudchief]

I think you have covered your bases ok. What you are going to find is that you are not going to get the power out of those panels laying flat. Like bigboomer states you are not going to get those batteries charged back up with that kind of usage. I have 600 watts and the most I can get out of a solar day is between 135=150 amps. I am running 2ga from the combiner box down.

[mjammersc]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I should clarify on the power estimate of 250-300 AH - when I said conservative I meant that is a very safe high side number. More than likely I'll be below 200 unless there are lots of unexpected phantom loads. I wanted to be sure I wasn't close to the 50% number including margin.

Les,
thanks for the pictures. I like the idea of the fake medicine cabinet in the bath to hide the panels. I'll have to look to see if I have space as my linen closet is by the shower in my layout so the back wall may not work but the side wall may have enough room. I also like the way you built your equipment boards to remove them. Do you just let gravity wedge lock them in?

John,
I have to admit I already stole many ideas from your install and blog I considered using the "coat" closet like you did but we use ours a fair amount so I/DW are not sure if we want to give up the space. I am leaning towards running the cables down the same space as you seeing I'll be tearing into that area for all the meters and the power center anyway.

As far as the power out of the panels being flat, I'll probably use mounts that I can add tilting bars to later but would rather not use them as a normal state. If I can fit them, I want to use the 335W panels as even at the 80% of rated light, they are still ~275W each so I would be more likely to stay at max output of the MPPT-60 longer/more often.

Thanks again all

Mark

[Drifty1]

I would install this inverter. http://baymarinesupply.com/store/ele...r-charger.html
It is a 3012 Hybrid from Magnum.. $1735.00 +$9 shipping and you will love it.

[mjammersc]

Les,
One other question on your install, why did you do the second sub panel for the 50A loads vice leaving them in your power center?

[mjammersc]

Drifty,
I'll have to read up on that model some more. I'm trying to understand that say I'm attached to a 30A pedestal or a 3K generator and my air conditioners (not on my sub panel but still on the main panel) are using maxing the pedestal/generator, the hybrid inverter would provide inverted power from my batteries to the other elements on my sub panel still? Is that correct as that is the only scenario I could see the hybrid helping.

[davidaf]

x2 on 3012 Hybrid from Magnum. It wasn't available when I bought mine but I wish I had it. Key usage for me would be running my Microwave off a single 2kw genset. Sometimes I'll trip the overload on the Gen sometimes not. The Microwave pushes it right to the limit particularly so if I'm charging the batteries. The MS3012H would either back off the charging to keep from overloading or help "absorb" some of that excessive draw and use the battery pack for anything over X amps.

I would suspect the load would have to be on the sub-panel for the inverter to kick in and help with the load. If the load was on a different circuit the inverter would be completely unaware of current draw. When current draw exceeds 15A (for example), inverter leaves standby and provides additional capacity. Now, if you were on 30A and worried about overloading the pedestal you could always trip the breaker for the inverter on the main panel. The inverter would then provide power to the sub-panel from the batteries leaving that 30A pedestal to power only the AC or non inverted circuits. But, you could do that with any inverter/sub-panel setup.

[Drifty1]

My setup is a little different then most systems. I do not use sub panels I use my main 50 panel which I split into a 30 amp and 20 amp feed. I removed the wire from the 30 amp feed in my main box which runs everything but the one ac unit I have forward to feed my inverter. Then I ran the output of my inverter back to that 30 amp on the main breaker which feeds my original distribution panel. I do not have the capability of running my ac unit thru my inverter at all but I am ok with that.

As David said with the hybrid unit I can tell the inverter to take say 19 amps off the shore power cable when I am plunged in a 20 amp breaker. Then any power surges over that 19 amp will put the inverter into load support from the battery's. This feature comes in very handy most of the time.

We have 3 solar panels that are 435 watts and I run them crossways on the roof. If I remember right they are 42" x80" so I have about 6" or so walking room on each side of the roof. They lay flat but still put out 750-800 or more watts of power on a nice sunny day when my battery's are run down. I went with the Midnight Classic 150 for my charge controller as it was American made because it was and still might be unit with the highest output rating at 96 amps..
I am sure you will enjoy the freedom you get with a well built system.. I am very happy with my setup and it works well.

[Bigboomer]

quote:Originally posted by mjammersc

Les,
One other question on your install, why did you do the second sub panel for the 50A loads vice leaving them in your power center?

Mark,

I used two sub panels because the first one is where I fed the main 50 amp to from shore and then run a 30 amp to the inverter feed. The inverter then feeds the second panel with all other loads 30 amp and less. The first panel also has accommodates all the other heavy load items such as the fireplace heater, washer/ dryer, etc. that I would only run while on shore power with 50 amp.

As for the removable board it is held with gravity on the continuous tapered cleats with 2 screws at each end as a safety to keep it from sliding but with weight I highly doubt that will happen.

[mjammersc]

Les,
Thanks for the clarification. So basically you abandoned the AC section of your factory panel/power center and created your own main panel (50A main breaker, non inverter loads, and 30A feed to Inverter Transfer Switch) and a sub panel for all the inverter fed loads - correct? Interesting approach as I wasn't sure how to feed the inverter transfer switch off the factory panel as it can only handle up to 20A breakers.

[Bigboomer]

Mark,

Yep, exactly what I did. I still use the factory converter 12 volt section for all those loads.

I butt splied all the existing AC wiring to extend to the new subpanels so that if and when we trade the rig in all I have to do is remove the extentions and rewire the converter. All the factory breakers are still in place and I put all new breakers in the subpanel.

[mjammersc]

Thanks for the concept. I'll have to take some measurements and see if it fits in the bathroom without limiting access to the linen closet or getting in the way/something new to smack a head on