Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-20-2022, 12:55 PM   #1
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
Hitch Receiver info needed

I have a 2018 Keystone Montana 3120RL Legacy that currently has the 300 lb receiver on the back rated for a bike or cargo rack.

Here's my question.... I want to take our HD Ultra Roadking with us now and then so I want to put a dual wheel swivel trailer on the rear. It comes with dual receivers so I need to reconfig the trailer hitch area with dual receivers.
I've seen it done so I know it can be done, just wondering exactly how it was done or should be done.

Without all the discussion about tongue weight, warranty, blah, blah, blah.......... the trailer and MC weigh about 1400 lbs together and we have no idea what the tongue weight would be due to the dual receiver distribution and the load being center of the trailer / forward of the rear wheels / axle.

The current bike / cargo config is has a metal tube welded to a smaller metal tube that is then welded to the frame rails. Not spot welded, welded all the way around on both sides. If we add two receivers to the existing rail, weld straps to the top and bottom of them to beef up their support, beef up the front and sides contact points with gussets could this possibly be sufficient.

Any suggestions to make this a class 2 or better would be greatly appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2019_Swivelwheel_2-wheel_Motorcycle_Trailer_kqOnEO.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	63.8 KB
ID:	12547   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (82).png
Views:	23
Size:	1.44 MB
ID:	12548   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220720_133928.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	92.7 KB
ID:	12549   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220720_133942.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	100.7 KB
ID:	12550  
 
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 02:27 PM   #2
jsb5717
Montana Master
 
jsb5717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Milwaukie, OR
Posts: 1,454
M.O.C. #23668
Should it be done? Your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea what the stress rating is on the welds under the trailer. You're moving from 1 receiver to 2 so the tongue weight is completely different since it's distributed differently.

How to do it? Any competent welder can do that job. Take it to a decent Fab Shop to have 2 receivers welded to the existing cross arm. Anyway, that's how I'd go after it. YMMV
__________________
Jeff & Sandi (and Teddy - 7lb Schnorkie)
2018 Montana HC 305RL / HW Progressive EMS
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn Crew Cab 4x4 DRW / Demco Recon Hitch on RAM Puck Ball
jsb5717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 03:29 PM   #3
AZ Traveler
Site Team
 
AZ Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,898
M.O.C. #20477
Jeri,

Take it to a good trailer shop and they will weld a heavy duty receiver to the frame that will handle more than the stock receiver.
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL

"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
AZ Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 03:32 PM   #4
jetskier
Montana Fan
 
jetskier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Minden - NV
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #22360
I added another cross tube to the end of the trailer frame. It was exactly 2" gap between the top of the receiver tube and the bottom of the frame wide flange beams (aka I-beams for you non-engineers). You could do the same and add the dual receivers. I tow my ~2800# jetski trailer with no issues.

Pic in the link below:
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...3&postcount=10


It's been more than 3 years of use and it's solid.
__________________
2013 F350 Lariat Ultimate CC LB
2019 3790RD
jetskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 03:40 PM   #5
Mikendebbie
Montana Master
 
Mikendebbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,390
M.O.C. #21044
So…two hitch receivers…??
I know how a single tongue/ ball hitch trailer follows the tow vehicle.
Doesn’t dual hitch points tend to make the relationship fixed?
Does the trailer have a single axle? or are wheels independent?

Just so you know the weight - can you take a bathroom scale out there and see what the tongue weight is? If you think it might be more than 300 lbs you probably need to get a welder involved to beef up the rear end hitch.

Edit: I looked at your pics closer and I see they appear to be independent swivel wheels.
__________________
MikenDebbie Aggie ‘77 in the sticks near Austin TX
2019 Chevy 3500 High Country DRW
2018 Montana 3921FB
Aussie Gus + Texas Heeler Jimmy
Mikendebbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 03:54 PM   #6
Joint Venture II
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: LYNDEN
Posts: 286
M.O.C. #30751
A couple things come to mind in viewing the pic of trailer and motorcycle loaded. FW trailers of your size have a lot of movement vertically at the rear end while being towed, especially across bridges and road construction areas. It would appear that all suspension for the swivel trailer is in the wheel assembly. If I attached a swivel trailer like yours I would not load it down with an expensive motorcycle until I was certain it was safe. Seems that the trailer could become a "springboard" for launching the motorcycle no matter how secure the tie downs were.

From a swivel trailer web sight: https://www.cruiserlifts.com/collect...ndem-tow-dolly

https://www.cruiserlifts.com/collect...8-single-wheel

"There are basically 22 states that do not allow double towing, some of them call it triple towing. We consider the system an extension of the Fifth wheel or motor home. (Not a Trailer).

Although we do not agree, The State of New York has decided to reclass our swivelwheel system therefore, it could fall under the double/triple towing law."


Here's proof it can be done.
https://www.cruiserlifts.com/collect...8-single-wheel
__________________
2003 Holiday Rambler Navigator 43PKD 500HP 11L Cummins ISM
2005 Keystone Montana 2955RL (sold)
1999 F350 SC (sold)
Joint Venture II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 06:09 PM   #7
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,148
M.O.C. #30417
A class B covers towing tandem? I thought you needed a class A. I would love to tow my Ultra but on those small tires? That would scare the BaJesus out of me
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 08:05 AM   #8
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
Mike and Debbie

They are independent swivel wheels. The advantage is it tracks inline with the trailer, especially if you have to back up instead of it jackknifing like it would with a ball hitch. It also makes it's an extension of the trailer so legally it isn't considered double / triple towing.

We thought about the bathroom scale but that wouldn't tell us the tongue weight with the Harley on it because we won't be able to put the MC on unless it's hooked to the Montana.
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 08:10 AM   #9
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
Joint Venture,

Like I said, I know it can be done, have seen it and it's why we decided to do it instead of starting over with a Toyhauler which we wouldn't be using all the time. We love our Montana.

Am aware of the double / triple towing issue but the dual receivers are the trick and make them an extension of the trailer as opposed to an additional vehicle. As such it doesn't even have to be independently registered.

The dual hitch also prevents the springboard affect I think you were describing. The hitch receiver rotates only so far up and down and side to side.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (83).jpg
Views:	23
Size:	98.9 KB
ID:	12563  
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 08:19 AM   #10
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
FoldBak,

Here in Texas we don't need a noncommercial class A until we reach 26,500 lbs or we have two vehicles in tow when the rear vehicle is on a ball. By having the dual receivers it is not considered a separate vehicle but an extension of the 5th wheel. My Montana and truck come in around 23,000 on a good day and the trailer and MC at about 1400. So I'll just squeak in under that 26,500. The guy we bought the trailer from was towing his HD trike so he was doing a lot more weight than I will be and he was a full time RVer which I'm not.
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 08:26 AM   #11
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,148
M.O.C. #30417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeririgged223 View Post
FoldBak,

Here in Texas we don't need a noncommercial class A until we reach 26,500 lbs or we have two vehicles in tow when the rear vehicle is on a ball. By having the dual receivers it is not considered a separate vehicle but an extension of the 5th wheel. My Montana and truck come in around 23,000 on a good day and the trailer and MC at about 1400. So I'll just squeak in under that 26,500. The guy we bought the trailer from was towing his HD trike so he was doing a lot more weight than I will be and he was a full time RVer which I'm not.
Is it legal in CA?
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2022, 04:34 PM   #12
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
Foldbak, I believe so because of the two solid receivers which make it an extension of my Montana. If it was being towed on a ball hitch it would not be.
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2022, 06:14 PM   #13
kowbra
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Battleford
Posts: 627
M.O.C. #26690
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeririgged223 View Post
Joint Venture,

Like I said, I know it can be done, have seen it and it's why we decided to do it instead of starting over with a Toyhauler which we wouldn't be using all the time. We love our Montana.

Am aware of the double / triple towing issue but the dual receivers are the trick and make them an extension of the trailer as opposed to an additional vehicle. As such it doesn't even have to be independently registered.

The dual hitch also prevents the springboard affect I think you were describing. The hitch receiver rotates only so far up and down and side to side.
I've looked at these for years but have never pulled the trigger. And I don't personally know anyone who has used one.

That said, I still would want to see what happens when the back of the 5th bounces as they will at times.
While I agree with you that the attachment is solid, isn't also the case that the rear of the 5th wheel dropping will cause the front of the Swivel Wheel to drop? As an example, think of when you leave a driveway and the rear of your 5th wheel at times will almost touch the ground; what will happen if you have your SW attached? Won't the front drop and create a very steep angle forward? Will the Harley tilt forward so that it comes dangerously close to the back of the 5th? Now imagine that happening at full speed over bridges or other sharp bumps on highways...

Again, I have no experience, but the above scenario is why I've been shy to try it. I think watching the SW and Harley in a rear camera would be a good way to see what's going on back there.

I'd really like to hear how others have made out, or if you do get it all connected up, I'd really enjoy hearing back on how it works out.

Let us know, thanks!

Brad
__________________
2021 Montana 3790RD, Legacy, Super Solar Flex
2020 RAM 3500 Limited, HO
kowbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2022, 08:34 AM   #14
R.S.O'Donnell
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 607
M.O.C. #25842
We saw this very setup but with a "Freedom Hauler" on a Montana while at Nellis AFB a couple of years ago. Had the receiver modifications done at a welding shop somewhere in Texas. They absolutely loved it and had zero issues with it.

This was pretty much what he had:

https://youtu.be/gauBPkJigNg
R.S.O'Donnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2022, 08:36 AM   #15
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Foldbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 2,148
M.O.C. #30417
I agree. I'd be scared to death to have my Ultra snap a strap hitting a speed bump. I'd feel better if it had a suspension.
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana HC, 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2K inverter, 200AH Lithium. 2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 08:15 AM   #16
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
UPDATE:

Got the new dual hitch receiver welded on yesterday. Looks pretty good, we jumped on it and it's about as stiff as it could be. No bounce, no flex. We're going to run around town a bit empty to see how it goes, and then we'll load up the golf cart and take it for a ride. If there's going to be a problem from the start I'd rather lose the golf cart than the Harley.

https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...hp?albumid=411
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2022, 09:03 AM   #17
R.S.O'Donnell
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 607
M.O.C. #25842
I do not think you'll have any problems at all.

When we trailered our MC I cut all the hooks off the straps with bolt cutters and put snap links on so if there was any bounce the straps wouldn't come unhooked.
R.S.O'Donnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 04:15 PM   #18
jeririgged223
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liberty Hill
Posts: 139
M.O.C. #26548
UPDATE:

Got it done and took it out for two test rides, one with and one without the Harley. Had a little side to side wobble but that was adjusted out after the second test drive. We had to disassemble the dual hitch attachment and when we put it back together it had to be tightened down alot more than we originally did. Called the folks that made the trailer and they told us what to do for that.

Worked great, towed great and backed up straight like a champ. We found that it does better when the weight is on it as opposed to running unloaded. In the photos / videos you'll see there is a tilt toward the trailer when it's unloaded. You position it that way so that when it has a load it levels out. You'll see that with the Harley on it it levels out.

If you'd like to see pictures and video of the test rides you can go to:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...p2?usp=sharing

You'll see flickering taillights in the videos but they don't. That's just having LED lights and the cellphones camera function that makes that happen .
jeririgged223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.