Chevy 6.0 up grade for towing

[Mike S]

Basic info;



I have a 2000 Silverado 4x4 with 6.0 gas engine.


Pulling a 2005 triple slide 34' long, triple slide., kitchen in slide ---- sorry, not sure of model number.


I am looking to upgrade my power for the 1% of the time I have the trailer hooked up. Truck is just perfect for my needs the other 99%.


Towing on flat land is fine, as well as slight hills. really steep stuff is another story. Tired of creeping along in first gear and wondering if it will make it.


Please dont even suggest switching to a diesel-----been there/done that. Yes, it towed much better but the 1% driving with a trailer just does not justify the 100% of listening to the rattle and having the stench of the diesel.


So, I am thinking of adding a turbocharger. Looking for reports from folks who have done so. Also looking for other ideas/alternatives for upgrading the pulling power of my rig.


Budget is not going to allow a new truck, I just need to look at how to make this one work better for the steep hills.


Thanks in advance for any help.


Mike Starkey

[Joint Venture II]

First off, what is your axle ratio, Gas engines love low geared axles, and multispeed transmissions. You need at minimum a 4.30 or 4.56 axle ratio. My truck did a reasonably good job with 3.73's, but after I swapped in 4.30's it really woke up. The 6 speed was a big help too. If you're down to 1st gear in the hills something tells me you are geared too high.

The problem with a turbocharger is the requirement for premium fuel and under heavy load the pistons have a tendency to fail due to the boost pressure and combustion temperature. A turbo charged engine is built to take all the stress of the boost, stock non turbo engines that have a turbo added generally don't last long under heavy load.

A 2005 triple slide 34' long is going to be at least 12-13k in weight. That is a lot to expect a 6.0 gas to pull well. My 2005 double slide 2955RL is about 11.5k and the 6.8 V10 works hard in the big hills and mountains. I'm looking hard at a 7.3 gas Godzilla gas engine transplant for next year and the idea of 27% increase in horsepower and 21% increase in torque has my attention. A new truck or a new used one is out of the question as my present truck has been extensively modified for towing my FW and only has 104k on it. You could consider a 6.6 GM transplant and gain an 11 percent increase in horsepower and a 22 percent increase in peak torque compared to the 6.0 gas engine and is much cheaper than a new truck. What transmission do you have?

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

First off, what is your axle ratio

I dont know, whatever is stock for a 3/4 ton heavy duty. I guess 4.11.

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

The problem with a turbocharger is the requirement for premium fuel and under heavy load the pistons have a tendency to fail due to the boost pressure and combustion temperature. A turbo charged engine is built to take all the stress of the boost, stock non turbo engines that have a turbo added generally don't last long under heavy load.

Yup, got all that. I would be looking at low boost and sizing the turbo so it only comes in at the higher RPM that I get into when working the truck hard. Not interested in daily driving boost.

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

A 2005 triple slide 34' long is going to be at least 12-13k in weight. That is a lot to expect a 6.0 gas to pull well.

I think it is 12.5 k gross, on the sticker. I pull just fine most of the time, only had one time I had to go down to first gear for any extended time. Long grade going to Berlin NV.

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

You could consider a 6.6 GM transplant and gain an 11 percent increase in horsepower and a 22 percent increase in peak torque compared to the 6.0 gas engine and is much cheaper than a new truck. What transmission do you have?

Tranny is probably a 4l60e or Google says 6l90. I need to look into the 6.6 engine, was not aware of them. Most likely more $$ and effort than I am willing to deal with.

[Joint Venture II]

Originally Posted by Mike S

I dont know, whatever is stock for a 3/4 ton heavy duty. I guess 4.11.

Inside your glove compartment is a white decal that has all your RPO option codes and on that tag there will be a code like GU5 or G**, but I seriously doubt you have 4.11 gears. Most 2500's had either 3.42 or 3.73 and neither are great towing combinations.

Yup, got all that. I would be looking at low boost and sizing the turbo so it only comes in at the higher RPM that I get into when working the truck hard. Not interested in daily driving boost.

Good luck with that idea, lots of factors to consider, turbo choice, waste gate choice, and how it all plays with your engine computer.


I think it is 12.5 k gross, on the sticker.

You need to weigh your trailer so you know how much you are pulling.


Tranny is probably a 4l60e or Google says 6l90. I need to look into the 6.6 engine, was not aware of them. Most likely more $$ and effort than I am willing to deal with.

You don't have a 4L60E as that is a 1/2 ton or light duty 3/4 ton 2 wheel drive. Your transmission is the 4L80E and is an excellent 4 speed transmission. The problem is it's only 4 speeds and if your axle ratio is not a low ratio overdrive is useless and therefore you have only 3 gears for towing. All goes back to having a proper axle gearing to make it an effective tow truck.

if you are not a mechanic and have the ability and facility to install an engine then the 6.6 option would be spendy. Probably in the $20k range. My 7.3 option is something I can do myself as I've done many engine swaps over the years. Once built a 513 Caddy engine for a Suburbon I used for towing a 8k travel trailer. I used the 3 speed T400 transmission and a US Gear 2 speed aux overdrive transmission for 6 forward gears. Allowed me to split all my gears. Axle ratio was 4.56 on this truck. Great truck for towing and hauling my 5 kids camping.

[432bartman]

Your truck should already have the 4:10 gears. Your best bang for the buck would be a ProCharger system. Not cheap, but their kits are complete. You'd get about 150 hp over stock, no bottom end mods are necessary, and at a low 7 psi of boost. On their link they have a kit for your 2000 6.0 truck.

https://www.procharger.com/

[Joint Venture II]

Model: 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 4x4
Engine: 6.0 L V8
Horsepower: 300 hp @ 4,800 rpm
Torque: 355 ft lb @ 4000 rpm
Towing capacity: 10,500 lbs
Max Payload Capacity: 3115 lbs
Max towing weight:
7500 lbs with 3.42 axle
8,500 lbs with 3.73
10,500 lbs with 4.10

The Vortec® 6.6L V8 engine delivers 360 horsepower and 380 lb-ft of torque. It also has a maximum towing capacity of 14,800 pounds.

Originally Posted by 432bartman

Your truck should already have the 4:10 gears. Your best bang for the buck would be a ProCharger system. Not cheap, but their kits are complete. You'd get about 150 hp over stock, no bottom end mods are necessary, and at a low 7 psi of boost. On their link they have a kit for your 2000 6.0 truck.

They do too, for a 1500 1/2 ton trucks. They state very clearly: NOT DESIGNED FOR 2500/3500 APPLICATIONS. Generally speaking supercharged engines make terrible tow trucks as the boost is a constant when RPM is a constant and was never intended for towing up long hills or mountains. At $8000 for the kit plus install costs it is a risk.

[Mike S]

Thanks for the responses so far, they are appreciated.



Looked up the Prochanger-----really nice, but too much $$. Ditto Vortec.



Gear vendor under drive is looking like it may be a good solution, anybody have input about them?

[Joint Venture II]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Gear vendor under drive is looking like it may be a good solution, anybody have input about them?

I have looked into them extensively and think they may have some advantages due to being able to split gear changes. This would be advantages for your 4 speed transmission. With ratios using a GV being:
1 : 2.48
GV:1.93
2 : 1.48
GV:1.15
3 : 1.00
GV: .78
OD: .75
Double OD: .59

You can quickly see that 2nd gear in GVOD would give you a 1.15 ratio and about a 15% increase in towing power on long grades that you can't now pull in direcr (3rd gear). If the hill is steeper you would then turn the GV off and drop into 2nd gear 1.48 ratio.

About $4000 if installed by yourself or an additional $500 for labor. Rear driveshaft would need to be shortened @ about $200

[77cruiser]

Small turbo with boost limited to 5-7 lbs. should get you what you want.

As far as sizing one you'd have to ask.



https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/index.php or
https://www.theturboforums.com/

[mlh]

A turbo will give you what you wont. Extra gears will not add any power a turbo will. The extra advantage to a turbo is you wont loose power as you gain elevation. You loose 3.5% of your torque for every 1000 feet of elevation. You could add a tuner. That is the easiest thing to do but for most naturally aspirated engines they don’t add much. They might be worth checking into. Try 5 star.
Lynwood

[Joint Venture II]

All the superchargers, turbos and engine swaps in the world won't help much if you are not geared correctly. Learning what your rear axle ratio is paramount to going forward.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

All the superchargers, turbos and engine swaps in the world won't help much if you are not geared correctly. Learning what your rear axle ratio is paramount to going forward.

Agree, and I have no way of knowing what they are----perhaps having a dealer decode the VIN?---- but I do not want to change gears (would need to do both front and rear) and the have to live with that for the rest of the time I am driving around minus a trailer. A Gear Vendor underdrive would allow me to drop the effective ratio when needed yet still keep the stock gears for normal non towing driving.


I suspect the ring/pinon swaps would be at least as costly as a GV unit. I can install it myself, but I would need to have a shop do the diff gear work.

[Joint Venture II]

Open up the glove box and take a pic of the white code decal and post the pic.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by Joint Venture II

Open up the glove box and take a pic of the white code decal and post the pic.

Will work on that.



Might take a bit of time as my camera probably needs to have the battery charged.



Then, I have to figure how to get the photo from the camera to here.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Will work on that.



Might take a bit of time as my camera probably needs to have the battery charged.



Then, I have to figure how to get the photo from the camera to here.

Not sure if anyone has said this to you yet, but welcome to the forum!

Sorry I don't want to throw water on your plans, but I'm not sure there is a cheap fix for this problem. I get it; you don't want to buy a more capable truck for the 1% of the time you need more. I'm kind of in the same boat, although I tow about 1/3 of the time - we spend about half our time in our 3790RD and ideally I should have a dually; but I've had them before and my wife will never drive a dually and has said so repeatedly. So, I have a 3500 SRW and accept that I am pushing it.

However, there is a big difference between "pushing it" by driving a newer diesel truck vs what you are doing. The fact that you don't have enough power to tow your rig properly is just the tip of the iceburg, IMHO.
You have already indicated that you are towing well over your max limit, and that rating is a combination of engine power, drivetrain strength, frame strength, etc.

Trying to solve only one of the above limitations - engine power - won't change the other limitations.
And, trying to improve power using a turbo is potentially fraught with problems. Early implementations of turbo's, especially for gas engines, reduced engine life significantly. Turbo's are simple technology in themselves, but add tremendous complications to the overall performance and reliability.

An example; by using hot exhaust gasses to drive the turbo, you capture a tremendous amount of heat next to the engine instead of expelling it as you do now. Then consider that compressed air becomes super heated (which is why intercoolers were invented), and you have now raised the operating temperature of the engine compartment by a significant amount - usually exceeding the OEM design. The aftermarket crowd likely isn't in a hurry to tell you that.
To address some of the above engineering challenges, factory engines with turbos have a lower compression ratio. This results in lower compression heat to offset the turbo heat. You will not have that with your engine.
Adding a supercharger slightly reduces the heat as the exhaust expells as normal, but still adds the intake air heat. And it introduces major stresses on the engine as it is being driven.

Summary; your engine was not designed to handle the stresses of either a turbo or a supercharger. IOW, at the worst possible time you want to add more heat and stress to your engine, you will be adding a LOT more heat and stress to an already stressed engine. AND, we haven't even addressed what all that extra power will do to find out what the next weakest link is - is it the transmission that will break, or rear axle, or maybe the frame will crack?

I think it's a slippery slope indeed.
I'm really sorry to sound so negative, but if it were me, I'd try to find a nice newer truck that you could trade up to. I firmly believe that if you don't, you may think you are saving money today, but after spending the money to upgrade what you have, then adding money to potential failures... you will not be saving money at all. Sell the truck and use the money to by the right tool for the job; doesn't have to be a ridiculously priced new one, but just a few years newer with a larger gas engine and heavier rating will save you money in the end.

IMHO and really hope you know I say this with the idea of helping you avoid what I believe would be a big mistake. (I walked that path in the 80s with a work truck I had, so I speak from experience and it didn't turn out well; broke down repeatedly and way more expensive in the end... )

Brad

[Mike S]

Brad, thanks for the reply.


You are correct about the turbo tech stuff, no disagreement at all. I was looking for any reports from folks who had done a turbo add on, good or bad----and hoping it would be a bunch of good reports.



A new truck is just simply not going to happen due to budget. Not even sure if a turbo kit would have been workable. 6 or 7 grand for Vortec or Procharger----nope.



I think my best option is the underdrive, at lest for now unless someone comes up with a better idea.


The truck is adequate for my use, and has never failed to do the job. I just would like a bit more grunt for the rare times I am pushing (actually pulling) things to the max.



I do appreciate your taking the time to respond, thank you.

[77cruiser]

If you are looking for just a little more some headers & free flowing exhaust & cold air intake, probably most important would be tuning.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by 77cruiser

If you are looking for just a little more some headers & free flowing exhaust & cold air intake, probably most important would be tuning.

Agree, just not sure if that would give me enough extra power. Certainly would be on the lower $$ side of things.

[77cruiser]

Still gonna be a couple grand.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Brad, thanks for the reply.


You are correct about the turbo tech stuff, no disagreement at all. I was looking for any reports from folks who had done a turbo add on, good or bad----and hoping it would be a bunch of good reports.



A new truck is just simply not going to happen due to budget. Not even sure if a turbo kit would have been workable. 6 or 7 grand for Vortec or Procharger----nope.



I think my best option is the underdrive, at lest for now unless someone comes up with a better idea.


The truck is adequate for my use, and has never failed to do the job. I just would like a bit more grunt for the rare times I am pushing (actually pulling) things to the max.



I do appreciate your taking the time to respond, thank you.

Mike,

Of course, I and so many others on this forum are here to help... and we get so much help as well!

My concern for you is that no matter what you do with your existing truck, you are greatly exceeding its tow ratings; didn't someone post the ratings for your truck at 10,500 and you are towing over 12k? If that is correct, then you are towing about 20% over your limits. No matter how you try to solve the problem, especially at a lower budget, you will only be able to address one of the many reasons why your truck is not rated high enough to tow what you want to tow.

So, again to try to help... is there no way to find the right buyer for your truck and find a deal on a newer and more capable truck that works within your budget? IOW, instead of a few grand into your truck, what if a few grand got you into a newer truck? (again not saying "new" but "newer"...)

A quick search on autoblog... a 2000 Chevy 2500 6.0L has a price range of $23k to $29k and a 2010 has a price range of $27 to $34k... so about a $4-5k difference for 10 years newer; if that's realistic numbers and if it were me, I'd sure consider that option before the money pit of $2k, $3k, $6k+ into an upgrade cycle on the 2000 model that will never be rated high enough no matter what I spend.

And, the 2010 model Chevy 6.0L trucks have 360hp and 12,500lbs towing; looks like a nice upgrade (both about 20% improvement) and now within the specs for what you're trying to do.

Maybe that deal isn't out there today, but what if it is with a few weeks of searching? I hope it doesn't sound like I'm pushing, but I am worried that the upgrade path won't end up where you want and will cost you way more in the end.

hth,
Brad