Towing capacity and Payload Question

[jeririgged223]

I have a 3021RL Legacy and run at about 14,400 lbs. fully loaded. I had a 2019 Ford F250 SWR 4WD, but the kingpin weight was just about tapped out which made me nervous. I just bought a 2022 F350, longbed that gives me an extra 1000 lbs of kingpin / cargo weight capacity which I'll never need but am glad I have and I have a 30k GVWR with a 21K 5th wheel towing capacity. Where the F250 was getting 9 mpg on avg I just got back from a 3800 mile trip where I avg'd just over 11 mpg over hill and dale, along with thru the mountains. Same engine, basically same truck, only thing different is the weight ratings, beefed up suspension and gear ratio. Clearly the F350 didn't have to work as hard as the F250.

[DadsHemi]

When we’re fully loaded we tip the scales well over 27K, and I do have a CDL….If I want to I could pull doubles lol. I’ll have to find my weight ticket.

[bshgto]

Originally Posted by mlh

If I had a nice 2020 Ram I would try pulling your camper to see how it pulled. You certainly have enough power and the only difference between your truck and a 3500 SRW is the rear springs. If you need to put the extra spring on it.
Lynwood

This is a good idea Assuming the axle, wheel bearings and the rating of the TIRES tires tires tires are the same as a 350 but along with a extra spring and a 350 spring mounting block which is different than a 250 is readily available on line the other parts can be changed out to (the axle might be a little tough) but still way cheaper than a new truck.

[RETCHIEF]

Originally Posted by Chief Brown

We have a 2020 Ram 2500 Big Horn Crew Cab with the Cummins diesel. We did have a 2014 Crusader Fifth wheel with a dry weight of 10,070. Last year we decided to upgrade to a 2021 MHC 331RL. I looked at the dry weight of the Montana and it was around 11,500. I then researched the towing capacity of my Ram and it is around 17,800. So I figured I am good to go. I was recently talking with a friend and he said you need to check the payload of your truck. I looked on the placard and the payload is 2115#.
Here's my question, why would Ram build a truck that will tow 17,800# but put the payload capacity so low? This payload would only allow me to tow a 10,000# fifth wheel after I added hitch, passengers, etc. and stay below payload capacity.
Thoughts?

I had a 2018 Ram 2500, gas and it was borderline for our 331RLS. I now have a 3500 and the payload is 4300. Gas has larger payload as the diesel engine weighs a lot more and it goes against the payload. I tow locally with no mountains.

[Chief Brown]

Originally Posted by kowbra

On the RAM 2500 they use coil springs but leaf springs on the 3500.
One other note on the RAM 2500, the coil springs are mounted inboard from where the leaf springs are mounted on the 3500s. This makes for a fantastic ride, but does create some challenges when towing, such as sway.

Our last rig was a RAM 2500 with the factory air suspension, towing a 11,000lb Jayco and it did good overall. However, when the conditions were "wrong", there could be some sway. It was usually good with winds, but rutted up 2 lane highways could be a handful. I never felt that the truck had issues pulling or stopping, but be aware of the potential for sway. Once we knew we were upgrading to a Montana 3790RD (~16,600 loaded), we immediately ordered a new RAM 3500 truck. Now, even with an extra 5000+ lbs of trailer, the rig is much more solid.

Chief Brown, your MHC will put you overweight on the payload of your truck. Some are comfortable towing a bit over payload, due to either having the factory air suspension or adding aftermarket air bags for extra support. I sure don't want you to think that I am giving any advice to you here, but I will say that I am also not in the camp of being the "weight police". There are times that I would have been overweight on my payload on my past rig, but I did my research and knew that I was not over on my rear axle, nor on my tires.

Here's some math, in case it's helpful...
-payload is restricted as noted, due to an arbitrary weight classification
-your tires are likely the same as on the 3500s (likely load rating 125, or 3640lbs each, or over 7200lbs for each axle for a combined total of over 14,000lbs)
-your front and rear axle ratings are ~6000lbs each, so your total "combined axle weight" max is more like ~12,000lbs
-let's round up the truck weight to 8000lbs. The weight with no load in the box and with the Cummins is very front end heavy; likely ~5000lbs on the front axle and ~3000lbs on the rear.
-that means your rear axle might have as much as 3000lbs of capacity and your front axle ~1000lbs of capacity. (and your tires on each axle have more than an extra 1000lbs of safety beyond that)

Next, you can add up the weight that will go in the truck and the actual hitch weight of your trailer when loaded the way you want to load it up. It's always a good idea to load up and find a CAT scale that will weigh both the total weights and also each axle, so you know exactly where you are at, and where you might be pushing it.
Only you can decide if the risk is something you are willing to deal with. At least the above math may give you some data to help with your decision.

All the best with your decision; you have an amazing truck and a great trailer. If you can trade up to a 3500 that would be ideal, but perhaps your 2500 may work if you load your MHC lightly.

Brad

I did fail to mention this 2500 has the air suspension system on it. I look at the axle rating, 6000# and the tire rating (E range) 3000#, and I feel a little better. Hopefully not a false sense of security.

[Majorpolk]

Originally Posted by Cat320

Your 3/4 diesel will "pull'' any Montana....but can't carry the pin weight. 250/2500 trucks are great for virtually any pull behind, not so for a 5th wheel and the pin weight.

But if you have an accident as soon as the insurance discovers you are over weight they will most likely walk off and leave you hanging.

[AZ Traveler]

Originally Posted by Majorpolk

But if you have an accident as soon as the insurance discovers you are over weight they will most likely walk off and leave you hanging.

Nope. You can be drunk, speeding, over weight and texting on your cell phone and they must cover you.

Not that I am advocating any of this but if you have caused an accident you have normally done something wrong. If the insurance company can walk away when you have done something wrong, what is the point of carrying insurance?

[mlh]

Originally Posted by Majorpolk

But if you have an accident as soon as the insurance discovers you are over weight they will most likely walk off and leave you hanging.

Anyone who believes this please go to your insurance company and ask them.
Lynwood

[mhs4771]

You will be covered up to the limits of your policy. The BIG problem is all those Accident Lawyers and a Civil case that if you believe the Lawyer's add could net the person millions from you.

[AZ Traveler]

I would assume many of us have millions in coverage assuming a decent umbrella policy.

[81SHOVELHEAD]

My 2015 6.4 Hemi Ram 2500 has a payload capacity of 3130 with a towing weight of 12,850. No issues towing our 2021 295RL with an empty weight of 11,300 & pin weight of 2300. Haven't taken it to the scales yet but I'm guessing I'm probably @ 12,000 lbs with a pin weight of 3000. We dont boondock & do most of our camping on thd Texas / Louisiana Gulf coast. Zero issues so far...🤔😎

[mhs4771]

I bet you will be very surprised when you scale and see how heavy you really are unless you only tow completely empty and then I still be it will be more that the listed dry weight..
Our SOB shipped from the Factory 1000 Lbs heavier than the brochure dry weight and that was still before we even add a paper plate.

[81SHOVELHEAD]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

I bet you will be very surprised when you scale and see how heavy you really are unless you only tow completely empty and then I still be it will be more that the listed dry weight..
Our SOB shipped from the Factory 1000 Lbs heavier than the brochure dry weight and that was still before we even add a paper plate.

Going to find out for sure next month when we take it for state inspection. While hooked up gonna tow it to cat scales. Didn't want to waste my time weighing it empty. Now we have all our camping stuff transfered from our original camper , pantry loaded up & ready to camp. Not sure about your model but another 2021 295RL model did a cat scale on his & posted the ticket #s on the Montana High Country 295RL owners FB page & even they were amazed that they came in under 12K & a hitch weight of under 3K. They towing with an F250 gasser. Gonna find out real #s next month. Even though the GVCW is 14,000 k as stated we never boondock & always stay at camgrounds with full hookups. No need to carry waste wate or freshwater when we travel however i do carry 10 gallons (80 lbs) of freshwater for bathroom breaks , toilet flush & doggie water when traveling. Freshwater tank is located behind trailer axle so shouldn't be an issue.

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by mhs4771

…….. ..
Our SOB shipped from the Factory 1000 Lbs heavier than the brochure dry weight and that was still before we even add a paper plate.

Did that extra weight include a washer/dryer?

[MandK]

Ours was 500# over listed dry weight, but that included slide toppers, 1 battery and the 50 amp cord that was in the pass through. King bed probably adds a few pounds. Both propane tanks were full, not sure if keystone includes propane in their specs. So I would say pretty close considering.

[mhs4771]

I would say yes to the Washer & Dryer since they were factory ordered. Plus that would include the 8K axles and 17.5 Good Year G114 Tires vs stock 7K axles and 16" Cheap Chinese tires

[BB_TX]

I am sure the shipping weight listed in the specs is for a basic trailer before any options have been installed. Depending on how many options are actually included the actual shipping weight could be a lot more as many have found. Don’t know if they provide the final shipping weight to the buyer or not.

Washer/dryer, slide toppers, heavier tires, king bed, even a fireplace would be considered options beyond the basic trailer.

[Lee-CI]

Not sure just where I came up with the notion, but I thought each Montana was weighed and stickered prior to shipment to the dealer via an on site scale. I realize that number would exclude battery(s) and I have no idea if the units are even shipped with empty propane tanks. Now I'm starting to wonder if Keystone merely weighs something like one out of 10 new builds and that the empty weight number on the sticker is more or less just spit balling....

[BB_TX]

I doubt that any of the trailers are weighed coming off the assembly line. The shipping weight is most likely the design weight of a basic and empty trailer, maybe verified by weighing the first one or two off the line before any options are installed. I would not be surprised if it was a computer calculated number based on all the the design details and maybe never actually weighed. That is certainly possible with the massive power of computers now. Our smart phones are far more powerful than the computers on the first moon lander.

[dfb]

We had the same delema. Had a 3500 ram cumins srw. We traded it in for a dually, 4:10s ,auto level. It was about a straight trade.